The Zen of Surfing: Gerry Lopez Shares His Insights

Guy Kawasaki:
I'm Guy Kawasaki, and this is Remarkable People. Aloha. We are joined today by the remarkable Gerry Lopez. He's known as “Mr. Pipeline”. He was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, and his early surfing career started at the Ala Moana Bowls. This paved his way for a spectacular surfing career. He won the title of Hawaii State Champion at just fourteen.
His evolution continued at Oahu's North Shore where he mastered the Bonsai Pipeline. He scored victories at the Pipeline Masters in 1972 and 1973. His influence extends beyond riding waves to also surfboard manufacturing. He co-founded the Lightning Bolt surfboard company where he pioneered high performer shortboards.
He's also somewhat of a movie star. He had great roles in North Shore and Conan the Barbarian. He's the source of one of my favorite movie lines of all time, "He's so haole, he doesn't even know he's haole." I'll explain that to you. Haole is a somewhat negative term used in Hawaii for white people.
So when this mainland Haole came to Hawaii and started surfing on the North Shore, he had to break into a group of locals, and let's just say that locals are not always initially welcoming to strangers. Basically, Gerry is saying that the mainland Haole is so dumb, he doesn't even know he's dumb. What can I say? You had to be there.
Gerry is truly a legend. He exemplifies passion, innovation, and inspiration. You'll also find out in this episode about the relationship of yoga and surfing as well as whether I should fix a board that he made for me that was damaged in a very funny incident. I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is Remarkable People. Join me in celebrating the remarkable life of “Mr. Pipeline”, Gerry Lopez. "He's so Haole, he doesn't even know he's Haole." That's you in North Shore, right?
Gerry Lopez:
Yeah, that was a fun project we did. That was a while ago. That was in the early 1980s. When I read the script, I thought, "Wow, this is a pretty good script. This is believable." And today, now with the whole wave pool thing, it's really becoming a very real possibility that there may be some very near future world champion that learns how to surf in a wave pool.
Guy Kawasaki:
And who came up with that line? Because whoever came up with the line truly understood Hawaii.
Gerry Lopez:
When I read the script, obviously there was a lot of, whoever the guys that wrote the script were a little bit haole, but they wanted to use Pidgin in a lot of the things that I was saying and the Hui guys were saying, but their Pidgin wasn't very authentic. I ended up actually becoming one of the technical advisors and put in most of the Pidgin lines in that movie.
Guy Kawasaki:
So you're a linguist as well as a surfer.
Gerry Lopez:
Just like you. We grew up with Pidgin. Probably your parents were just like mine. They wouldn't let us talk Pidgin in the house, but when we were with all our friends.
Guy Kawasaki:
It's funny because I'm sixty-nine-years-old and I went to college in the mainland and I have been trying to lose my Pidgin for forty, fifty years. But people still come up to me and say, "I heard you just talk. Are you from Hawaii?" And I'm like, "What the hell? What's giving this away?" And then a few months ago I interviewed this linguist on this show and she said, "You should stop being ashamed of your accent. It's part of you. Don't try to clean it up, just be you."
Gerry Lopez:
It's always there. And when us locals hear each other speak, even if we don't know each other, you just look at them and go, "Oh, this one's local, huh? How's it?"
Guy Kawasaki:
Has anybody ever pointed out the irony that someone from Punahou was playing a North Shore mogul? There is some irony there, Gerry.
Gerry Lopez:
I guess there is. Right?
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay. Take us back to your first wave at Queens. What was the feeling?
Gerry Lopez:
That's a feeling that never leaves, I don't think, any surfer. They always remember that first wave. And what they remember is that gliding, just that the waves doing all the work and you're just gliding along, like riding down a hill on a bicycle with no hands, just sailing along.
And I think it just touches everyone somewhere deep inside. And that's the reason surfing is like it is and surfers are like they are, that all they want to do is go surf and recapture that feeling again. But it's always the first one that makes the biggest impression.
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah, I started surfing at sixty and if I had surfed as a kid, I would not be where I am today. There's no way. I'd be making coffee at Ala Moana Center for somebody right now.
Gerry Lopez:
I know. Surfing doesn't take some of your time. It takes all of it.
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah. I take a break from surfing to work now. And there's a story in your book about how you got arrested on Kauai for trespassing on the Robinson land. And I want to know what you took away from that experience though. You didn't serve any time, you got exonerated, but what's the lesson there?
Gerry Lopez:
You better know the rules before you play the game. We were just tired and lazy from surfing all day and we knew better. But right at the end, right before you get to the Waimea River, there was a little road that you didn't have to walk over all the rocks on the beach and we just weren't thinking. And we jumped on that road and we knew that was a private road even though it was right next to the beach and then they were waiting for us, busted.
Guy Kawasaki:
But it's not like I'm a big localism kind of guy, but you could make the case that this is Hawaii and you guys are haole, rich plantation owners. What is the big deal about letting surfers walk on your road?
Gerry Lopez:
Well, obviously the judge felt that too because in the end he said there was no intention to trespass and he let us go. We couldn't believe it. We didn't know what was going to happen, but we didn't think we were going to get away with that.
Guy Kawasaki:
And off to Oahu prison we go. I have a question from left field, which is maybe you can explain to me why is the Skil 100 held in such high regard? It's almost like mystical. The people who have a Skil 100, it's like this magic thing that you cannot get. What's so magical about that tool?
Gerry Lopez:
It was just the ideal tool for shaping foam because we've tried to recreate it. I worked with Gordon Clark at Clark Foam and Jeff Holtby when they tried to take a Hitachi and make it work like a skill. And it was the angle of the handle and it was the way the adjuster for the depth of cut worked that it was just perfect for shaping foam into a surfboard. And today they're really hard to find.
Guy Kawasaki:
How hard could it be for Skil to reintroduce that?
Gerry Lopez:
I don't think there's that big of a demand for them.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay, fair enough. A lot of the information about you goes really deep into yoga. So can you explain for us the connection of yoga and surfing?
Gerry Lopez:
When I was, I think it was my sophomore year, I saw a bunch of good-looking wahines looking at a bulletin board. I like to think I'd just would walk up there and, "Hey, how's it, what's happening?" But most likely I very meekly peaked over their shoulders to see what they were interested in.
And there was a yoga class announcement there on the board and they looked at me and put me on the spot, "Are you going?" And "Of course," and I'm sure I went to that class hoping to see those girls again, but what I found was something that really made a big impression on me ever since then.
I thought that watching that yoga instructor, this was in 1968 too, there weren't many yoga opportunities like this available, and watching that girl, just watching her move, I thought, "Yoga's going to make me a better surfer. I better learn how to do this." And I stuck with it.
I found that over the years that like surfing, yoga only comes into a person's life when I guess it's supposed to. It has to be the right time. And I've tried to introduce so many friends to it, but it wasn't the right time for them so they weren't that interested. But when it is, it will happen.
Guy Kawasaki:
And is it the effect of stretching and strengthening or is it a mental thing that links yoga and surfing?
Gerry Lopez:
This is like the one hand clapping question for me and something I've thought about over all these years, which for me it's been what? Over fifty years for yoga and long time for surfing. Obviously, the physical part is really important, but the idea in yoga is that there's this whole universe of experience that occurs in this unseen realm of existence that is constantly every moment of our lives influencing us.
And the yogis call it prana, the Hawaiians call it mana, which is another interesting thing that why these two cultures on opposite sides of the world would have almost the same word for the exact same thing. What they're talking about is the life force that animates all life.
And I believe that in order to surf successfully, which you have discovered later in life, which is probably a better time to find that because you probably have thought about it a lot, but in order to ride a wave successfully, you have to be in that deep meditative state of mind.
And if you aren't, wipe out. And the beauty of surfing is that you attain that state of mind almost instantaneously the moment that you start paddling for that wave and especially the moment when you stand up on that surfboard. To get to that same state of mind in a yoga practice requires a lot more time and some pretty deep concentration.
In a way, in surfing, we get to cheat. We get to that state almost more easily than anyone else except maybe Yogananda who lived in that state. That's something that's been really intriguing to me for a long time and I'm really thinking more and more about that. I'm actually working on another book right now dealing with exactly that.
Guy Kawasaki:
Wow, we will help you promote that book when it comes out.
Gerry Lopez:
Oh, thanks.
Guy Kawasaki:
I don't suppose it's as simple as I ask Gerry Lopez, tell me the three or four yoga poses that will improve my surfing, and I just do that. It's not that easy I think, right?
Gerry Lopez:
One of the real lessons in yoga is not in perfecting the pose, but it's embracing the process, and that way it doesn't become a dead end of unfulfilled perfection, but an ongoing evolution of the whole process. And it's just yoga. It's something that everybody's different level of experience, just development and you just hug the process and be happy with where it takes you.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay. I'm friends with Shaun Tomson and Shaun once told me, "Guy, professional surfing, there is no training like there is for football and basketball. Football and basketball, off season, you're hitting the weights, you're doing all this kind of stuff, but surfers, they just go out and surf."
And now you have yoga and every once in a while, of course when you see a movie or documentary about surfing, there's this scene where they're holding a rock and they're running underwater. But is that true? Why don't surfers go and really lift weights and do all that kind of stuff and train or am I just mistaken about that?
Gerry Lopez:
No, the top guys all train now. I mean they spend a lot of time in the gym, and the fitness level has to be so high, especially for the guys that are surfing the big waves. But even for the guys that are on the tour that are surfing smaller waves, they have to be top condition at the highest level of athleticism to do what they do.
And injury is so close with especially the maneuvers and stuff that they do these days, they fly in the air and easy to get hurt. And when you're injured, just like football or baseball, if you can't come back and play, you're out.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay, I'll tell Shaun he's wrong.
Gerry Lopez:
No, I mean he's not wrong at all, but that's true because there's really nothing except paddling a surfboard that gets you in shape for paddling a surfboard. It was really interesting when I moved up here to Oregon, my son met these kids in school, and we became friends with the parents, and I introduced them to surfing out on the Oregon coast here.
And I was telling them the hardest part is paddling and these kids took to surfing. I couldn't believe I'd never seen anybody do that, even top athletes. And I went, "Wow, what's the deal? How come they can paddle surf boards?" I go, "Were you guys swim team guys?"
And they go, "Oh, we swim a little." Later on, I found out they were Nordic skiers and Nordic skiing requires the same arm movements that paddling a surfboard does. And it was really interesting to me that wow, there's some cross-training for surfing that no one ever thought of.
Guy Kawasaki:
Wow.
Gerry Lopez:
But that's the hard part. Surfing is 90 percent paddling. When you don't do it, you lose it, so you got to keep doing it. So no, Shaun is absolutely correct and all you can do is just go surfing as much as you can.
Guy Kawasaki:
Yesterday I reached out to Shaun and said, "Shaun, I'm interviewing Gerry Lopez tomorrow, what should I ask him?" And Shaun says, "Ask him what kind of cake he was eating when he said Pipeline is a cakewalk?
Gerry Lopez:
The Pipeline was really a big part of my life and Shaun's as well. When he came over from South Africa, he really liked that wave too. And he was very skilled already and he adapted to it much quicker than many guys that lived in Hawaii. But when you surf a spot enough, you get familiar with it. Eventually, if that's what you're trying to do, you develop a relationship with it, a personal relationship.
And I really always thought that my relationship with the Pipeline was pretty deep and pretty special, and I got away with a lot of stuff that a lot of other guys didn't get away with. And eventually at the Pipeline, everybody gets hurt. It's not if, it's when, and the more you push it, eventually that's going to happen. And I had to pay to play out there and I did willingly because I really enjoyed that spot, just like Shaun and all those guys. They did too.
And they came at a time when the Pipeline was just becoming a popular spot because back in the late 1960s and the very early 1970s, the place to surf on the North Shore was Sunset Beach. That was the challenging spot. And nobody came to the Pipeline. It had a reputation, it had hurt a lot of people and had already killed one really good surfer from Peru. And so it had a specter about it, a reputation, and everybody went to Sunset.
And that's why I think I had a little bit of an advantage at the Pipeline was because nobody was there, and I got to learn about that place without the big crowds. And then the attention started changing because not only was it really easy to photograph, but when the waves were good there, it looked really spectacular on film and had my picture in a couple of surf movies.
Before that, in the beginning days when they started surfing the Pipeline was in the surf movies, but it was always the wipe out section. And that was really mostly because the equipment, the surfboards weren't really suited to that wave.
And it was our generation, in the early 1970s there, when the shortboards started coming that we were able to develop equipment that worked there and that gave us some success surfing the wave. And then they showed it in the movies and then the next thing you know, all the attention now is all on the Pipeline and nobody even remembers Sunset Beach.
Guy Kawasaki:
In a sense, isn't this Jeff Clark has Mavericks to himself for fifteen years and now when you go out to Mavericks, it's forty people out there.
Gerry Lopez:
Or more.
Guy Kawasaki:
Or more.
Gerry Lopez:
Surfing was a small sport, and because it is so attractive and appealing, it's grown so rapidly. None of us ever believed it was going to get as big as it has. And Shaun and his group were the first guys when they came around, they go, "We're going to get paid to go surfing."
And those guys in Hawaii, me and Barry Kanaiaupuni, Tiger Espere, Eddie Aikau, we looked at them, we laugh up. "Hey, who's going to pay you to go surfing? Nobody going to pay you." They were right. And they had some vision in regards to that surfing was going to grow and the industry was going to get on a footing like it is today where they pay these top surfers a nice salary to go surfing.
Guy Kawasaki:
Gerry, a lot of people listening to this, they may not know what the hell is he talking about Pipeline? And obviously it's a break and it's a place people surf, but at a higher, more metaphysical level, can you explain what Pipeline represents to surfing?
Gerry Lopez:
What it's become in my lifetime is maybe one of the higher or if not highest level of surfing for any surfer to test himself, to test how much of a surfer he wants to be. It's become one of the ultimate waves. So the Pipeline, like I said, started out as not a real popular spot and suddenly the focus completely changed, and now it is considered one of the ultimate surfing spots in the world today.
And like I said, just in my lifetime, surfing went from a very small, obscure sport that none of our parents wanted us to become surfers. They wanted us to do something useful with our lives and we couldn't help ourselves. And here I am, seventy-five-years-old and that's all I want to do is go surfing as much as I can. And I don't know, I don't feel bad about that. I actually feel good about it
Guy Kawasaki:
For any surfers out there listening, what's the gist of how you successfully surf Pipeline? Not that I'm going to do this, but just give us kind of the insights on how you conquered or maybe not conquered, but how you sink with that wave?
Gerry Lopez:
In the beginning it looked so fast and so hollow and this was the reason that the old longboards had such difficulty there because the surfers were equally as skilled as any of the surfers are today, but their equipment was holding them back. As the boards improved, then the guys started having a lot more success and the surfboards have continued to improve.
And today these guys are at, like I said, such a high level of athleticism that they're able to ride surfboards that in my time I would think it's way too small a surfboard, but they are such good surfers now that they're able to do that on this wave. Wave that hasn't changed. It's still very fast. Their quick draw has gotten a lot quicker these days. They seem to be better shots.
Guy Kawasaki:
When you see Garrett McNamara surf a hundred-foot wave in Nazaré or people at Mavericks, do you say that's not really surfing or that's the ultimate in surfing? What's the difference between someone surfing Nazaré and someone surfing Pipeline?
Gerry Lopez:
It's all surfing and all of it is impressive, and the top guys are just unbelievably impressive. And even the guys, I don't think I'd paddle out at Nazaré. In fact, I know I wouldn't, and especially nowadays. Someone like Garrett who pretty much pioneered the place, he got an email from two Portuguese surfers that said, "Hey, can you come over here and look at our wave and tell us what you think because we think it's really a good wave."
And at first, he was, "Argh, I don't know." And then finally he went and he looked and he went, "Holy cow." And so he was really the guy to pioneer that place and show the rest of the world how big a wave can be surfed and that's something else.
And in Europe, Garrett McNamara is like a legend because the Europeans, they take their sports heroes seriously. I mean even more than us guys over here, especially the people in Hawaii. But yeah, Garrett's a big deal for what he does and he made surfing, which was already becoming big in Europe, much bigger.
Guy Kawasaki:
I watched the Patagonia documentary about you and you, more or less, freely admit that you got better and one of the methods was stealing a lot of waves. What's your current thinking on surf etiquette these days? Is it like every man for himself or have you gotten mellower in your old age?
Gerry Lopez:
You got to surf with Aloha, and Duke tried to tell all us guys that in the beginning, and we was young and stupid. And of course surfing was, like I said, such a much smaller sport then, but today it's busy and you can't get away with being a jerk anymore. It's all about learning how to not only live with aloha, but especially when you go surfing to surf with aloha too.
Guy Kawasaki:
I surf with a few people who don't have aloha and they're pretty good surfers. And I'm always wondering if I could surf as good as you, I would be so freaking happy. I'm like a beginner, maybe advanced beginner and I'm so happy surfing and you're a much better surfer. Why are you angry? What are you angry about? I don't understand those people, Gerry.
Gerry Lopez:
We have a wave here in the river. I don't know if you've ever heard of a river wave.
Guy Kawasaki:
I saw one in Munich.
Gerry Lopez:
Yeah, that one, because it's been surfed for so long, they have some heavy localism issues there. But we have a wave here in our little town in Bend, Oregon that when we go surfing in the summer, I've wondered why everybody was having such a good time. Not everyone was having a good time, but everybody was happy and there was no tension.
And I was going, "Why is that? It's not like that in the ocean." And I realized, wow, it's because everybody knows whose turn it is, because you wait in line until it's your turn. And in the ocean, you get so many guys that think, "Oh, not enough waves for me." And that's why they was like me when I was young, just take waves instead of share. And that's a real interesting part of surfing. Eventually, you learn, but sometimes it takes a long time.
I always think that you get plenty lessons in surfing. When I was surfing like twenty, twenty-five years before, it was like that was just a test to see if I was really interested. And then when surfing, realized I was interested, then I started to understand that there's all this great stuff to learn and many very interesting parables about life.
And while the waves of life may seem indeed more challenging to ride than the waves of the ocean, when we apply the lessons learned in the surf, we sometimes can find, in a metaphorical sense, the easier paddle out, hooking into that rip current that lets us slide out smoothly through the closed out sets of day-to-day life and maybe even get to the outside lineup with our hair still dry.
Guy Kawasaki:
That's a metaphor for life, yes, yes.
Gerry Lopez:
And that's one of the big lessons of surfing that you learn from the beginning, but you don't really understand what you're learning. And it takes a while to see that, oh, maybe the Hawaiians were really onto something because, what? Yoga and surfing go back maybe thousands of years, we don't know.
Yoga we do, they had Patanjali, he wrote the Yoga sutras, but we didn't have somebody like that in Hawaii that was recording what the ancient Hawaiian surfers were all about. And it just may be that both those cultures are equally as ancient.
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah, yeah. I can tell you as someone who's been surfing nine years, that surfing is one of the hardest sports to learn. And I think the hardest part of the hardest part is how do you pick a wave? How do you pick where you sit? I feel like when I'm out there trying to read the waves, I'm blind and I'm trying to use braille. I want from Gerry Lopez, what goes through your mind? How do you pick a wave?
Gerry Lopez:
First you got to see it coming. It's all about paying attention just like in life. And that's why I used to make these funny rules, "Hey, no talking in a lineup," because you get distracted and then the set comes and you get caught inside. And all surfers, no matter how long they've been surfing and how good they are, you're going to get caught inside.
And there's a great lesson to be learned from that. But when you're out in the lineup, you don't want to get caught inside. You want to be where the waves are. And that's hard to do because no more sign posts out there, no more place to mark the lineup. And it really all comes back to paying attention. And it's just repetition.
You have to, just like Shaun Tomson said, "You got to just go all the time," and each time you go, you don't even realize it, but you are learning things. And eventually it's like you get little bites every day, little advances every day, and then one day, all of a sudden something happens, for what reason? You don't know, but you get a big bite, and you go, "Wow."
And that's the light bulb moment where, "Oh, I really learned something today." But then the next day you forget it and you got to really learn it again. And that's the beauty and the downside of surfing. That's why it's so hard.
Guy Kawasaki:
About two years ago I lost my hearing and now I have a cochlear implant. So with the cochlear implant, obviously we've been having this conversation, but you cannot use a cochlear implant in the water. And I got this cochlear implant about a year ago. So basically when I'm in the water, I'm essentially deaf. And then I read your rule about not talking in the lineup, pay attention. I think being deaf has helped me become a better surfer because I cannot talk in the lineup because I cannot hear. That's my theory.
Gerry Lopez:
Well, in surfing, you got to use all your senses. And like I said, attention is the main thing that you have to constantly be on top of. But hearing comes into effect when you're surfing big waves because sometimes you see a set coming and you think, wow, maybe to get one big one outside and then you hear it already breaking and you know you're in trouble.
And you know if don't catch the first one that's right there, you're going to be in bigger trouble. That's the only time that you really need your hearing in surfing.
Guy Kawasaki:
Well, Gerry, just to be transparent, a big wave for me is four feet. And so when the waves are bigger, the only thing I'm surfing is a couch. Okay, just FYI.
Gerry Lopez:
Yeah, but surfing is such a compelling sport. It's going to suck you in just like it sucks everyone else. And pretty soon, "Oh yeah, five feet is good." And then pretty soon, "Wow, I want to be out there when it's six feet." Before you know it, you might be scheduling a trip to Mavericks.
Guy Kawasaki:
My daughter surfs at Mavericks and she has caught a wave and she's been towed in and all that. And I got to tell you.
Gerry Lopez:
Impressive.
Guy Kawasaki:
The thought of that just scares the out of me so much. I won't even go and watch her surf. Could not handle watching her surf at Mavericks.
Gerry Lopez:
Wow, that's very impressive.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay, completely switching gears, how did you get the part of Subotai in Conan the Barbarian? Sort of left field. How did that happen?
Gerry Lopez:
I worked on a movie called Big Wednesday that John Milius co-wrote and directed, and we became friends. And later on when he took on the Conan project, he rewrote the script. Oliver Stone had written a script that John wanted to improve on, and so he rewrote the script and wrote in this part and sent the script to me and goes, "What do you think?"
He goes, "I want you to play the part of Subotai." And I read the script and went, "Oh my God, this is like a big part. I can't act." And he said, "Don't worry, you'll be fine."
And Arnold couldn't act either, but I think John was a great mentor to both of us. And not only all of us have a whole lot of fun making that movie, but he really got Arnold and I through that. And Arnold went on to a brilliant film career and I think that John Milius really had a lot to do with that.
Guy Kawasaki:
And is Arnold a good guy? It's hard to tell from the outside who's a good guy and who's an as an asshole as an actor.
Gerry Lopez:
He's great. Arnold is awesome. They kept delaying the start date on Conan and we were doing some sword training with a Japanese instructor from Anaheim, Yamazaki San. And so Arnold and I got to spend almost a year together before we actually went to Spain and started to work on the movie. And I think he's a great guy. I thought he was a great governor too.
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah, I'd vote for him for president.
Gerry Lopez:
I would too. I was going to say that.
Guy Kawasaki:
You're seventy-five, Gerry, have you transitioned from short boards to long boards or are you still a short board ripper?
Gerry Lopez:
I ride them all. I'll ride anything I can. I like all the ways you can ride a wave. I even like body surfing, but there's all these new sports, kite surfing and wing surfing and foil surfing. They're all equally as compelling and challenging and attractive as surfing is, but it always comes back to surfing. So just like you hear about a good swell or some good wave somewhere and you're thinking, okay, what do I got to do to go surfing?
Guy Kawasaki:
So Madisun and I live in Santa Cruz and there's a theory that you start in Cowell, you end in Cowell. So would you say that's true of Queens? You started at Queens, you end at Queens.
Gerry Lopez:
I'll tell you what, when standup surfing came, I really got into it, especially here in Oregon where the water's super cold and the waves are hard to catch. And it was because of standup surfing that I rediscovered Waikiki, the joy. And even much deeper than that, what the ancient Hawaiians, they used to call that area in front the outrigger reef, Kawehewehe.
And that was where they went when they weren't feeling good, when they were ill or sick or just not feeling right. They would go there and just go in the water and they felt that would make them feel better.
And so with the standup boards, we started touring Waikiki area again, because you have all that mobility with a standup board and we start out right there, Kawehewehe, paddle out from in front the outrigger reef there, go out to number threes or pops. And then we'd look up and go, "Ooh, let's go cruise, let's go check out Publics." And then from Publics, "Let's go look Old Man's."
Guy Kawasaki:
Hey, Publics.
Gerry Lopez:
And then next thing you know we're at Tonggs, and then, "Wow, we're a long way from Waikiki." But that whole area was really special to me growing up and it just was really wonderful to renew that specialness with Waikiki. And I still encourage every surfer, no matter how good they think they are, you got to go Waikiki because that's where it really all started and just feel it.
Guy Kawasaki:
It's interesting. In Santa Cruz anyway, many of the surfers looked down on paddleboarding and paddle surfing. And what I've noticed is that the really good surfers like you, like Bob Pearson, to them it's like surfing is surfing and paddleboarding is just as good as prone surfing. There's no pecking order and we shouldn't let paddleboarders in here because, what? They can catch the wave further outside. It's kind of the surfers that think they are better than they are that have that attitude.
Gerry Lopez:
It’s always been like that. But like I said, there's plenty of ways to ride a wave and might as well try them all. You might find one that you like better than the other, and they're all great, but a surfboard is still the greatest. It's simple. It's the most simple one and there's a real beauty in that simplicity that just you and you got to have wetsuit when you stay in the mainland, but just a surfboard, pair of shorts in Waikiki, that's all you need.
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah, yeah. Are you still shaping boards?
Gerry Lopez:
I am, yes.
Guy Kawasaki:
And can anybody order one?
Gerry Lopez:
Yeah, but with Covid, I took a break. Covid was weird. It really disrupted all of our lives and it's just coming on the other side of it. What happened when Covid hit was that everybody wanted surfboards and the surfboard industry went crazy. And it was if you weren't doing all the work yourself, it was really hard to get. If you were just a customer, it was really hard to find surfboards.
But if you were a shaper like me, it was hard to get your surfboards glass because everything was in big demand. That's turned completely upside down now. And the surfboard industry is in one of the biggest slumps it's been in in my lifetime, and I don't know what's going to happen. But yeah, I still love shaping surfboards and building them and I still do it. Yeah, people can get boards from me.
Guy Kawasaki:
So I can order eleven-foot glider from you or is that beneath you to make a long board like that?
Gerry Lopez:
That's my secret weapon, the glider.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay. I'm ordering right now. I want an eleven-foot glider from you. Okay?
Gerry Lopez:
Shoot.
Guy Kawasaki:
Just tell me how much and where to send the money.
Gerry Lopez:
I have two gliders that I make with Surftech, which started as a Santa Cruz company that are really beautiful that I enjoy riding very much. And those are easy because you don't have to wait. If you order aboard from me, you got to wait till I get in the shaping room and then get them shaped.
Guy Kawasaki:
Even me? Even I have to wait?
Gerry Lopez:
Even I got to wait. I haven't made myself too many new surfboards these days.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay, I got to ask you this, what's the deal with the Gerry Lopez Wavestorm board?
Gerry Lopez:
Oh, the Costco board?
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah.
Gerry Lopez:
It was a way to have a cheap surfboard that people that don't want to spend a thousand dollars, 2,000 dollars to get one of my surfboards, to try surfing. Then I got a lot of flak about that, but I always felt that, just like Duke, Duke Kahanamoku traveled the world to share the gift of surfing with a lot of people.
And when he went to Australia, that was in what? 1915 or something, that he went down there. He was in Sydney for some swimming exhibition and he saw good waves and he went, "Wow." And so he tracked down big piece of pine wood and made himself a surfboard. And then when the surfboard was pau, he went surfing and all the people were watching going, "Wow." And they still have that surfboard.
Guy Kawasaki:
Really?
Gerry Lopez:
It's in the Freshwater Surf Life Saving Club. And I looked at that board and went, "Oh, that's not that big a board." Because part of that story is that he rode a couple waves all the way to the beach and then he came in and he asked some young girl, her name was Isabel Latham, and he asked her if she would like to accompany him out and ride a wave in with him.
And so she went, "Sure." And so he paddled out tandem with her, they caught a wave and they both stood up and rode all the way to the beach. And that's how surfing started in Australia, which surfing is huge in Australia these days. But the Duke was, that was what he did. He shared the gift of surfing with people.
Now, like we were talking about earlier, plenty of surfing, "Argh, we don't like any more surfers, too many already," but surfing is a beautiful thing that should be shared. And the whole deal with that Costco board was to make an affordable surfboard so that people could try it and see what it is that people like you and I live for, why we live for it.
Guy Kawasaki:
I never thought that my name and your name would be in a sentence together about surfing. My life is complete now, Gerry.
Gerry Lopez:
Thank you, Guy.
Guy Kawasaki:
And you know what, my attitude on that Costco board is, God bless him. I hope he makes millions of dollars like that.
Gerry Lopez:
You know what, it was your guys' fault in Santa Cruz because the first year Costco, when they're looking at a new product like that, they do a test run and they put them in certain stores and it was the Costco you guys have in Santa Cruz. Then all of a sudden the guys went, "Oh, these things are selling like hotcakes here." And then that's when they put in their order. Seriously. So it's your guys' fault.
Guy Kawasaki:
Oh, when this episode comes out, there's going to be protests in front of that Costco and I won't be able to get in to buy my hot dogs anymore. It's going to change my life.
So Gerry, what do you think about holding WSL or even Olympic events in a wave pool? It seems to me that so much of surfing is about figuring out where to sit, when to go, all that kind of stuff. And some of those variables are not exactly there like in the ocean.
So do you think that's a bastardization of the sport? Or figure skating in the Olympics, the ice is perfect, every rink is the same, and so you compete not on the conditions and reading the ice. So which way do you fall on wave pools and competitive surfing?
Gerry Lopez:
I think the wave pools are an absolute definite part of the future of surfing. You know what it's like in most lineups, especially the good lineups that it's busy, it's crowded and there's tension. And the thing we talked about earlier about how you go to a wave pool, everybody knows whose turn it is, and everybody has a good time.
So that's the experience of surfing that I'm sure that Duke Kahanamoku was trying to promote all over the world. I just don't think that he had any idea that surfing was going to grow as large and certainly not as fast as it did and become how it is now, which is crowded, not enough wave for everybody or me.
Whereas in a wave pool, everybody takes turns. And the level of surfing, the few events that they've had at the surf ranch is incredible. And I don't think there's any one of those surfers that would say, this is not a good place to have a surf contest. And the karma factor is taken out of the equation. It's not like a lot of times in surf contests, sometimes the last good wave doesn't come for the guy that all he needs is one more ride.
But in the wave pool it levels the playing field a little more so everybody gets good chance. And obviously that's not going to be the only place they have surfing competitions, but I think it's if they have good waves. Have you been through the Surf Ranch yet to see it?
Guy Kawasaki:
No. I've been invited many times, but I'm afraid to go because if I go and I fall in love, I'd just be going all the time and I don't need any more distractions in my life.
Gerry Lopez:
It's just, like I said, all the different ways to ride a wave, this is just another one of them. And when you get there, "Holy cow, they're creating this wave in a pool." You can't believe it. You really can't believe it that such an unbelievable wave can happen in a big swimming pool.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay, two more questions. All right, so I got Lopez rules. The first four are surf to surf tomorrow, pace yourself, don't talk in the lineup. And the fifth one is best surfer is the one who's having the most fun. So now with hindsight, you got any more rules or different interpretation of the rules? Has anything changed about the Lopez rules?
Gerry Lopez:
No. Those rules I feel are still valid, but the bottom line of all of it is keep paddling and not only in a literal sense because otherwise the next time you go surfing you're going to be all out of shape, but certainly in a metaphorical sense.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay, great. I got to tell you a little story. So I go to make this speech for Bob Reef and at the end of the speech he presents me with a Gerry Lopez Lightning Bolt board. This is a gift for making that speech. This is the most valuable board I have, Gerry Lopez, it's even signed to me.
So during the pandemic, I used to do a lot of virtual talks and all over the world. So sometimes I'm talking at 3:00, 4:00, 5:00, 6:00 AM. So one day after I got your board, I decided in my talk I was going to put it behind me so that I can show how cool I am. I surf. I don't know if I'm a surfer, but anyway, there's a fricking Gerry Lopez board behind me as I give this speech. And this is 5:00 AM, okay, I figure and I lean it against the door because that just happened with the camera. That was the best place to put it.
Gerry Lopez:
Somebody opened that door and the board fell down.
Guy Kawasaki:
6:00 AM, I figured what could go wrong? I don't know why, because my son has never gotten up at 6:00 AM in the morning in his life, he opens the door, the board fell down and there's two dings in it. And this board has never been waxed, never been used, but it's got two dings. It's hanging on my wall. And ever since that day, I've been wondering what should I do?
Should I just put two decals on it and cover it? Should I ask some local board guy to fix it? Should I ask Bob if I can send it back to Gerry to fix it? Should I ask Bob if I can send it back to Gerry and Gerry just circles it and signs, "It's okay guy, no problem. Leave the ding." So I've been thinking about this for years. Seriously. So now I'm talking to The Gerry Lopez who made that board.
Gerry Lopez:
Leave them.
Guy Kawasaki:
Now, it is a great story.
Gerry Lopez:
That's trophies.
Guy Kawasaki:
So maybe I should leave the ding.
Gerry Lopez:
That's two little trophies, but what do you advise me to do about the two dings in my Gerry Lopez board? When people see that thing, "Oh, what about these?" And then you can tell him the story of your son.
Guy Kawasaki:
Really?
Gerry Lopez:
And then when your son comes, he to look at those dings, he goes, "Oh, boy," and shake his head. But you know what we should do, Guy? We got to tell Bob, "Hey, we got to get Guy the ten six glider. So when he goes out at Cowell, he can sit outside by the guys with the standup boards and he can catch all the waves he like and never miss one."
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah. Hey, just tell me how much you want. Start today. Call up U.S. Foam. Order the blank. I would do that in a second, Gerry.
Although, another funny story is I gave a speech for a company in Santa Barbara and as a gift they gave me this Yater Spoon and this is a triple stringer Yater Spoon, beautiful board. It's got wood tail, wood nose, the block. It's just beautiful. So I bring it home to Santa Cruz and the guys I surf with and my family, they tell me, "You're not going to surf that board, that board is too beautiful. Just put it on the wall." So that board has never been ridden.
And then I decided that when I die and there's a paddle out for me, hopefully, I'm going to have my ashes paddle out on that Yater because finally I get to ride the Yater. But no, Gerry, when you make me this glider, I may save this moment and be paddled out on the Gerry Lopez glider for my last trip at Cowell.
Gerry Lopez:
Thank you Guy.
Guy Kawasaki:
Pressure's on, Gerry. I hope you enjoyed this episode with “Mr. Pipeline”, Gerry Lopez. Now you know why I need to take up yoga. The origin of the Gerry Lopez Costco board, which drives local surfers in Santa Cruz absolutely crazy. And you know why I will not fix the ding in my Gerry Lopez board.
I have to tell you one more story about this episode. Madisun and I were so excited to interview Gerry Lopez that we forgot to press the record button for the first thirty minutes. Luckily, we have backup systems, but I will say when we told Gerry what happened, he was totally cool about it and willing to start all over. That's the kind of guy that Gerry Lopez is.
I want to thank the people that made this episode possible. First and foremost is Bob Reef, and what a great last name for a surfing enthusiast. Without Bob Reef, this episode would not have happened. And then there's the Remarkable People team, Shannon Hernandez and Jeff Sieh on sound design, Tessa Nuismer, researcher, and there's Luis Magaña, Alexis Nishimura and Fallon Yates.
Finally, there's Madisun Nuismer. She's the producer of this podcast and co-author of the book, Think Remarkable. The point of this book is to help you make a difference and be remarkable. If this interests, you have to read this book.
Let's just say that on this day, March 17th, 2024, there are thirty-one reviews of Think Remarkable on Amazon. They are all five stars. What can I say? We are the Remarkable People team. We're on a mission to help you make a difference and be remarkable. Until next time, Mahalo and aloha.