Congressman Eric Swalwell: Fighting for Democracy in Turbulent Times

Guy Kawasaki:
I'm Guy Kawasaki, and this is Remarkable People. We're on a mission to make you remarkable. Helping me in this episode is Representative Eric Swalwell. This interview was conducted on Tuesday, July Twenty-Third, two days after Joe Biden stepped aside and just as Kamala Harris was taking off like a rocket ship.
There is usually a several-week interval between when we record an interview and when we publish it. But these are crucial, fast-moving and treacherous times, so we are releasing this in a little over a week because every day matters.
Eric serves as a U.S. congressman representing California's Fourteenth District. This is a region in the East Bay of the San Francisco Bay Area. Eric has served on the House Intelligence Committee and the House Judiciary Committee. He acted as the impeachment manager doing President Trump's second impeachment trial. His key policies focus on gun control, education funding and renewable energy jobs.
I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is Remarkable People. And now here is the remarkable Representative Eric Swalwell. You were raised by Republicans and now you're a Democrat. So what would your parents say about today's Republican Party?
Eric Swalwell:
They don't necessarily recognize it, my mom and dad, God love them. My dad was a cop. My mom worked a number of odd jobs to raise four boys. She made wedding cakes. She ran a very large daycare center at our house, put all of us to work, and they were your traditional Reagan Republicans. They wanted us to be strong in the world and to be more fiscally conservative at home, and that was how we were raised.
And that's completely unrecognizable today in what you see with Donald Trump and JD Vance and what's really a cruel Republican Party that stokes culture issues and divides Americans in a very corrupt way to seek power. So I think they tell you they're not Trump folks. They're still not Democrats, though. And believe me, I get ribbed by them a lot about Democrats. So like many, I think Republicans, they just feel lost and without the party they knew.
Guy Kawasaki:
This next question, Eric, you can lie to me, okay? I am giving you permission upfront. I have this fantasy in my mind that all of this was planned, and then the plan was, "Let Trump finalize his strategy, pick his VP, get overconfident, and we blindside him with this." Are you guys that sly?
Eric Swalwell:
So we're not as good as House of Cards as far as executing savvy political plans. We should strive to be as good and I would say decent as West Wing, but if you want to know the truth, it's really Veep. And it's just often complete chaos and sometimes a shit show if you want to know the truth. So my day to day is more like Veep. I want it to be like West Wing. Don't give us too much credit. It's never going to be West Wing.
Guy Kawasaki:
Well, as long as it's not like House of Cards or Yellowstone.
Eric Swalwell:
Yeah, that's right.
Guy Kawasaki:
So what do you think motivated Joe to make this decision?
Eric Swalwell:
I always knew that Joe Biden was going to make a decision that was best not for himself, as Donald Trump has done, will do, that he'd make a decision that's best for the country. That's why I supported the president to make that decision.
I didn't call on him to step aside. I knew that's just who he is, and frankly, his career has been bookended by decisions like that. When he was elected to the Senate at twenty-nine, before he was sworn in, he lost his wife and his daughter and found a way to still be a good dad and a great legislator.
And then when he was leaving the White House in 2016, he lost his son Beau, and he could have gone into retirement and only focused himself on grieving. Instead, he did that, but also answered the call to service when we needed to defeat Donald Trump. So he's always put country above self and this final act puts him on Mount Rushmore. He's on the Mount Rushmore for Democrats of FDR, JFK, Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson and Joe Biden. That's where he is now.
Guy Kawasaki:
When we look back in ten or twenty years, we're going to say he's one of the best presidents we ever had, win, lose or draw in this election.
Eric Swalwell:
He's one of those decent persons. When I debated him in the primary for the 2020 race, I'll never forget I was reluctant to even do that debate. My daughter had recently been hospitalized with RSV, and when you get a diagnosis like that and then she's on a breathing machine, your heart just drops. It skips past your stomach and lands at your feet and didn't know if I was even going to do the debate. I went, and I used that zinger, "Pass the torch," which was a great zinger because it was Joe Biden's zinger from 1986.
After I said that, we went to a commercial break, and Joe Biden started to walk over to me, and I thought, "Oh, shit. He didn't like that line." And I didn't know if he was going to take a swing at me or what was going to happen. And he looked at me and he said, "Nice line, wise ass." And then he put his hand on my shoulder, and he said, "How's your daughter doing?"
As if he could read my mind about what I was really thinking, and so that's just the Joe I know. Somebody, as I said, he takes the work in front of him seriously, but at his core is just a decent person, unlike what I think we've become accustomed to in our politics.
Guy Kawasaki:
Do you know the concept of the Overton window?
Eric Swalwell:
Yes.
Guy Kawasaki:
Well, which is a fricking' overland patio now.
Eric Swalwell:
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Guy Kawasaki:
It's like the horizon. It's not a window.
Eric Swalwell:
That's exactly right.
Guy Kawasaki:
If you were given this magic wish and you could fix any one aspect of federal government, what would you do?
Eric Swalwell:
Oh, boy. I'd protect our kids from gun violence. I've got a seven-year-old, a five-year-old and two-year old, and they're already doing, the two oldest, mass shooter drills. They've had shootings near their campus where they've had to shelter in place, and I just don't want them to be another generation that goes through these drills.
Recently, a substitute teacher came up to me, and she told me that when she goes into a classroom as a sub to start a week when a teacher's out sick or on vacation, she said more and more often kids are coming up to her and saying, "Do you know where to put me?"
And at first she was like, "What do you mean, where am I going to put you?" And she realized they're asking as the substitute, who's not been here from the get, "Do you know where I'm supposed to go if there's a shooting in the classroom?" And that is just crushing to hear. So if I could do anything, it would be to ban assault rifles, to buy them back so we get all of them off the street and to have background checks so that we take the most dangerous weapons out of the hands of the most dangerous people.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay. If Trump were to win, is it a fair thing to say or is it just hype that women will not get to have birth control, IVF ,abortions under any circumstances and no-fault divorce? Are those things going to really happen?
Eric Swalwell:
He will want them to happen. He'll do everything to make them happen, and the people who have supported him want that to happen. So let's talk about Trump's Project 2025, or TP Twenty-Five as I call it. Yes, it would call for an end to abortion. It would call for an end to your right as a family to use IVF to create a family.
It calls for an end to no-fault divorce. So it's essentially a forced marriage that it would put upon Americans. It also calls for an end of same-sex marriages, and so it would try and control every part of our lives and take away so many core freedoms.
And the person who is going to really implement and execute on this is JD Vance and someone who has in the past called for these forced marriages and supports what the folks who are supporting Trump's Project 2025 want to do. We're not going to let that happen. You can't do shit if you're not the president. And so I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that doesn't happen, that he's not given that power. Rather than restricting and reversing more rights, we will be a country that expands it.
Guy Kawasaki:
It seems to me, though, that with our Supreme Court giving him this kind of immunity that if you're standing in the way, Eric, take a test, send SEAL Team Six to take you out as an official duty, is this House of Cards fiction or can this really happen?
Eric Swalwell:
It's, again, what he wants to happen. It's the power he wants to wield, and he has a Supreme Court that's working right out of his palm right now, and he could put three more justices in another term on the court. So what we have to do is fix the court. We need to bring ethics to the court that has an independent review so that there's accountability. I'm open to other reforms like term limits as well, but we no longer can rely on the court to self-police.
That court has two justices who have pro-insurrection spouses. One of them allowed a pro-insurrection flag to be displayed at his home after January 6th, and another, his wife was at the president's rally on January Sixth, and neither of them recuse themselves. So if they're not going to do it on their own, we need some independent mechanism that keeps them accountable.
Guy Kawasaki:
So can a lame duck president do this between now and January?
Eric Swalwell:
He needs a Congress that can do it and make sure it lasts beyond just one presidency. I don't think you can executive order your way through fixing the court. And so that's why winning the House and the Senate is so important for President Kamala Harris to have as she takes office.
Guy Kawasaki:
Do you believe that the guardrails are in place to prevent the U.S. from becoming another Hungary?
Eric Swalwell:
If we win the presidency, the Senate and the House, absolutely. We also know that the best bet in Washington right now is the House. We're just about six seats short, but I'm confident Kamala Harris is going to win. But I also know that the House can be a firewall against any corrupt president, but I don't think we're going to have to worry about that. We have a real path right now to winning all three.
Guy Kawasaki:
You obviously know the Jim Jordans and the Mike Johnsons of the world, and I just want some insight into their heads. Do they really believe this shit or are they just saying whatever's necessary to get reelected?
Eric Swalwell:
So look at it this way, two-thirds of my colleagues who say crazy things are just pro-wrestlers at the nation's Capitol. So they say it, they don't really believe it, and I know they don't believe it because I see them when the cameras aren't on and they're not in the quote, unquote, "ring." the other third, like Marjorie Taylor Green, Jim Jordan, Mike Johnson, no, they believe it.
This is who they are. This is what they believe. That's fine. I can price in as I negotiate and deal with or try and legislate, I can work with people where I know what they believe in, what their core set of values are, even if they're way outside the mainstream. What is very hard to work with are people, and I'll give you an example, like Ted Cruz.
During the second impeachment trial, I presented to the Senate and then we took a break. And we were in the Senate floor, I used the Senator's bathroom, which we were given access to because we were prosecuting the case.
As I'm just washing my hands at the sink, right next to me is Ted Cruz. And Cruz looks over at me after he's washing his hands and he says, "Hey, we've never met." And he puts his fist out to fist bump me, and he says, "I'm Ted." And I put my fist out like, "Hey, Ted." And he could tell I was looking at him like he had three heads, three-head Ted.
He says to me, he goes, "You did a really good job out there." Again, I'm like, "You were just on Fox News last night. You called me out by name. What are you talking about?" He goes, "No, I mean it. You did a really good job out there." And it clicked for me, "Oh, he's a pro wrestler. He goes in the ring; he swings a steel chair at me, and he thinks that's what the fans want.
But when we're backstage and he doesn't have a camera on him, he's just Ted," and that is least acceptable for me. It's more just repulsive. Because if you're acting that way, then your constituents and the voters and Americans, and if they don't know that this is just an act, they may go along with it. And that's how you actually spin people up and put us in a January Sixth like environment.
Guy Kawasaki:
My God, that is a frightening story. Talk about a scene from a Netflix series. But anyway, so my last question is, what can a regular person, regular person, not a billionaire, do to support democracy?
Eric Swalwell:
You're actually more powerful than Elon Musk and his forty-five million dollar-a-month installment plan that he has, because you yourself, and you can organize, you can mobilize. And it's not just registering to vote and voting, it's being a part of rallies. It's being a part of town halls and speaking truth to power and telling leaders what you expect of them.
It's what you're doing right now, which is using the platform that you have with your friends, family, and followers to talk about your values, and right now, we're not helpless. That's the worst feeling in the world to have. We've all been in a position where we are helpless. We're not helpless in this. We can win for our freedoms, win for democracy over the next 105 or so days, and organize your friends.
Make sure they know what's at stake and make sure they know where to go, the ballot box. That's where all the difference in the world ever occurred. So we're more powerful than Elon's millions because we have votes and money does not divide us.
Guy Kawasaki:
You specifically did not say give money, though. Why is that?
Eric Swalwell:
Look, that's important. But having a message and a movement and globalization, those three Ms, that's more powerful than money. Money is important. Of course, you get volunteers out there, you have to pay for organizing. But I still think I would take a movement, and that's what Kamala Harris is building over a billionaire's money any day.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay. So Eric, I'm going to let you go now. I know you're busy. I really appreciate you taking this time.
Eric Swalwell:
I appreciate you wanting to do this, and I'm looking forward to getting the best sleep of my life in 105 days.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay, me and you. I certainly want to sleep well after the first week of November. So thank you, Eric, for being on my podcast. While I'm thanking people, big humongous thanks, of course, should go to Joe Biden who took one for the team and stepped aside. I don't think you're listening to this, Joe, but if somebody can get this to him, you know what, Joe?
I think in ten or twenty years you're going to be remembered as one of the best presidents in the history of the United States. Some people may think that a podcast is supposed to be neutral or nonpartisan. Well, I don't agree. I do not agree at all. And I'm going to tell you right now, I think you should vote for Kamala Harris.
She could save democracy, and we are on the precipice of losing democracy, and America could go away as we know it, so I want you to vote for her. And if this partisan attitude you off, what can I say? I'm not forcing you to listen to this podcast.
Now, let me thank the rest of the Remarkable People team. That would be Jeff Sieh and Shannon Hernandez, the sound design experts. And then there's Madisun Nuismer, producer and co-author with me of Think Remarkable. There's Tessa Nuismer, researcher, and then there's Luis Magaña, Alexis Nishimura, and Fallon Yates.
We are the Remarkable People team, and we're trying to help you be remarkable and prevent the downfall of America. I'm Guy Kawasaki, this is Remarkable People. Until next time, mahalo and aloha.