This is a video of a Churchill Club panel (9/20/06) that I moderated called Next Generation Insights. It featured six Silicon Valley young adults whose ages ranged from fifteen to twenty four.
These are some factoids that I found interesting:
They send as many as 4,000 text messages per month from their phones.
They watch one to two hours of TV per week. And they use Tivo or a recording device to fast-forward through commercials during that short timeframe!
They all have iPods, and they are very loyal to Apple.
They buy approximately forty songs a month on iTunes.
Helio is the hot phone (though none of them had one). I had never heard of it before!
Here’s a good analysis of the panel. The bottom line message is that before you waste your marketing dollars, you should watch what the panelists had to say about these topics:
Their fascination with MySpace and FaceBook.
How they use their cell phones—and seldom use a landline.
How they use computers—and Microsoft Office!
The surprisingly high degree to which they resent being “marketed to.”
The even more surprising degree to which “old media’ like magazines (specifically Wired for the males and US for the females) are effective.
Their dislike of online advertising whether banner, pop-up, or an ad running before or after a free video clip.
When I asked how advertisers can get to them, there wasn’t a lot of good news. Product placement may work if it’s subtle (specifically in The OC, Tivo be damned), but it sure appears that most forms of digital/online advertising are dead in the water for reaching young people. This is a whole new world…
One panelist’s mom followed up with me and gave me this list of the sites that her daughter visits:
To put it mildly, I didn’t exactly have these bookmarked or in my RSS feeds. :-)
One more interesting point that has nothing to do with the panel. Note how useful it is to have tags in a video like this— that is, the difference between Veotag and GoogleVideo.
Agree with the majority but my personal survey talking to my two sons and thier friends came up with the following.
Refusal to buy songs from iTunes
Complete lack of brand loyalty
They’ll ditch any technology (iPod, Xbox360, PS2 etc) as soon as something comes along thats better and that they can afford
A huge preference to text rather than phone
Other than the above the list was pretty similiar.
Perez has been filed away in my “guilty pleasures” feedreader file for some time now…
Helio for TMobile? Nope.
Guy Kawasaki just made my eyebrows go up, caused a click through or two and now I think, if Apple doesnt squeeze out some official word on their iPhone soon I may just become a new Helio owner. My Moto A630 is just about through after two years …
Interesting viewing but Silicon Valley is not the real world and six people do not a sample make. While I agree that advertising is dying, the TV viewing figure is at odds with the much larger LA Times survey of teenagers and young people that I referenced in my blog in August. Here’s one finding from it:
Myth: Time on the computer has replaced all those hours spent watching TV.
Truth: Almost half of teens said they spent up to two hours on the Internet each day, 29% said they spent up to four hours and 15% said they spent more than four hours. Twenty-three percent said they spent more than four hours watching TV. Many do both simultaneously.
I can verify all but the text messaging. Instant Messaging is my son’s choice. I replied to a similar post with info on my son’s habits and they supported many of the conclusions that you reiterate.
I’m the co-founder of www.itokhelp.com, a computer support company that fixes computers right through the internet. Originally, we thought the baby boomers would be our primary market, but we have been overwhelmed by support requests from college kids. As tech savvy as this generation is, many of them don’t know or care about the basics of maintaining proper computer security.
It seems many are less interested in the technology itself, and more obsessed with function. This is why I think more simplistic, stylish and function oriented products like the iPOD have done so well with this market. I believe many tech companies in the past few years have missed the boat by assuming that the 14-18 crowd is a bunch of nerds who want crazy gadgets. They don’t want crazy gadgets, they want amazing functionality that blends seamlessly into their lives.
One last thought, VeoTag beats the pants of Google video. Thanks for letting me know about it Guy.
Guy, how can you possibly be surprised by the marketing results? When was the last time you clicked on an ad and then bought something?
Think about it from a young person’s perspective: We’re all poor. I myself am finishing up my PhD, so I’ve only had enough money for food rent my entire adult life. The Helio comment is especially telling; what’s the use in having a product everyone admires but no one can afford?
Advertising is, for the most part, useless. Advertising to young people is especially counterproductive. I, the technologically-savvy pauper that I am, only buy stuff rarely, and then base my decisions on either (1) expert comments, or (2) my own research into the topic.
It seems that companies would do well to enhance word-of-mouth marketing by selling the “wow” products and providing reasonable customer service. Beyond that, they can try to educate the consumer by providing the facts on their and competing products.
As for product placement, that can work though it has to be subtle. Steven Spielberg’s recent movies are great examples of how NOT to include advertising.
I’m 26 and from Iowa, the middle of nowhere, and I agreed with most of what the panel said.
I don’t text nearly 4000 a month, more like 50. I rarely use IM.
I don’t use MySpace but I do use Facebook, its the new and improved telephone book.
I don’t watch much tv (local news), I only have basic cable (15 channels) because it came with the cable internet.
I despise advertising as well. 95% of ads online are for nothing. The remaing 5% are only glanced at if I already know what it is, but I never click on an ad. I’d just go to google and look up its website. You can never trust click-on ads anymore.
I think to reach young people you need to put out a quality product and get it in the hands of the people your target market watch. Be it celebrities, tech magazines, quality blogs. I am much more responsive to word of mouth than ads.
Oh, and the media (mainly cable news shows) are going down hill fast. They are the modern day Chicken Little. They take everything to the extreme and its annoying. Which is why the Daily Show is so popular, cable news is so easy to make fun of.
I just want the facts, not what you think the facts are, or what you want the facts to be.
You need to put out a survey like this. I would love to see the results from 18 – 25 year olds.
Helio was written up in WIRED a couple of months ago: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.03/helio.html
One or two hours of TV per week? I’ve always wondered where I could find the “4 hours of TV per day” people that Nielsen says fill this country; I don’t think I’ve ever met any.
It’s funny, though, no matter how many times someone declares advertising dead, people keep paying attention to it and it keeps working.
And if you think brands don’t matter to young people, watch them buy clothes.
Wow. I can’t believe you could present this as something new, or your idea, as you appear to do in the video. John Battelle did the exact same thing at a Web 2.0 Conference, and it has been done several times since, including I believe at a News Corporation conference.
– Where in the video do I present this as something new or my idea?
– Are you French?
Changement de paradigme en publicité
On trouve chez Kawasaki aujourdhui les faits saillants dun panel de jeunes de la Silicon Valley, de 18 à 24 ans. Les faits, sans vraiment étonner, sont troublants pour le monde de la pub et du marketing. Marketers beware!
These are …
How many people noticed the panel undermining the way blogs are counted in many surveys? All of them actively used Facebook or MySpace and yet none claimed to have a blog.
To support John Dodds (and provide my own limited sample of my three teens – 1 girl, 2 boys). My children constantly have the TV on AND are on the computer (or their cell phone – or ALL THREE). The issue with teens (as with many of us a bit older) is divided attention. None of us do one thing at a time anymore – which I suspect makes advertising a whole lot harder!
Too bad you didn’t have any seventh-grade girls. To quote one … “MySpace is so over. Too many pervs and freaks.” How to make a perv-less myspace…that is the question. Myspace is increasingly way too hostile a place for teen girls who rule the social-networking space. There’s an opening for a cool competitor who gets it. Which is why helio will be ho hum.
What’s getting cool? Check out teen “second life” Except it runs slow. Second Life is really social networking, not a game.
I love the veotag idea, it’s great. Hopefully more of your speeches will be published with tags ;)
No, but not evolving at the speed of youth.
Billboards and magazines, huh?
I think there is a big opportunity in sponsorship…companies/brands that can bring valuable/entertaining content, services and new experiences to online users. The Smirnoff Tea Partay music video on YouTube (viewed more than one million times) is a great example.
Love the VeoTag viewer. Very nice to jump within the video.
Great post, Guy.
How do Youth Use Technology?
If youre interested, check out this video that I found on Guy Kawasakis blog! Im just starting to watch the hour long video, but I thought Id share it regardless. Guy Kawasaki is moderatingso chances are itll b…
Former Apple Evangelist Guy Kawasaki chairs a panels of teens to 24 year-olds and comes of with today’s trends. Lots of obvious stuff: Everybody’s got a cell phone and text messages like crazy, FaceBook and MySpace are huge, everybody’s got…
Advertising is not dead and won’t be for a long time. Guy, you if someone should know. You work as a venture capitalist. Advertising and branding will allways be a big part of the corporate world and it won’t ever in my opininon go away or be superfluous.
Just because advertisment spending grows does not mean that it works. Conversion tracking was not possible in “traditional” or “old school” ads. Ad spend will move to where the metrics are which will incidentally be more targeted, not broad.
Advertising will need to revise itselft, that is for sure. Companies will need to deliver more relevant content that customers will be willing to watch.
Medienverhalten junger Menschen: Ist Werbung tot?
Wieder einmal gibt es ein unterhaltsames Panel moderiert von Guy Kawasaki. 6 junge Menschen aus der Bay Area wurden über ihr Medien- und Technologieverhalten befragt, um von der älteren Generation (= Eltern, Investoren und Co.) besser verstanden zu w…
In my opinion anyway, I don’t think there’s a one-size-fits-all approach to marketing. A B2B business probably won’t need advertising dollars if it generates its most profitable customers through word-of-mouth.
Yet, a more commoditized product for the masses probably needs advertising. Advertising builds brand awareness, which builds trust and credibility. Of course, that translates to more purchases.
Very interesting panel.
Most of it is true even here in Switzerland. Here is my fast summary (I’m 22 from Switzerland):
– Landline is still very important
– I text 30 messages a month
– I hate IM (it distracts too much)
– I don’t game
– I got rid of my TV 6 years ago
– I use social networks very rarely (only a networking platform similar to LinkedIn)
– I love Web-Videos (= modern TV)
– Wikipedia is very important
– Recommendations of friends are very important (I ignore ads)
– Convergence/Wireless is very important. All-in-one devices are the future
Best Regards from Switzerland
Next Generation Advertising Strategists…Read Here
Guy Kawasaki’s excellent blog, Signum sine tinnitu, has a September 28 posting titled “Is Advertising Dead?” that is must-read material for marketers of all stripes. It contains an incredibly interesting video of a panel discussion at the Churchill Cl…
Of course, as the Chinese spammer below demonstrates, some advertisers should probably be killed.
I work and live out my life weekly with a group of 120+ teenagers. You speak truth, this is an exciting time of experimenting in how to communicate to then effectively. Past methods are growting very small in the rear view mirror. This is an experimenters / risk takers season.
Thanks Guy great stuff.
i think you’re pretty wrong on this…just because some people are not “getting through to young people” does not mean others are unsuccessful.
the fact that you haven’t heard about the Helio and it’s their favorite shows that someone did figure out how to get kids excited about a product without making them feel targeted. they have obviously been targeted heavily, and it’s paying off, whether they are conscious of it or not.
if web advertising no longer works….then please explain to me why unknown upstart band Arctic Monkeys went straight to the top of the music charts in Britain……….here’s the answer: highly targeted web advertising campaigns manufacturing hype through tastemakers. trickle down popularity.
Insight Into the Next Generation
Guy Kawasaki recently moderated a panel of six young adults from Silicon Valley whose ages range from 15 to 24. It was called Next Generation Insights, and some of Guys insights include:
They send as many as 4,000 text messages per month from t…
Veotag vs. Google. Yes the tags/bookmarks are good – pity that the sound and video quality is noticable less than Google. If I’m going to watch the whole show I will do it in Google but if I want to later find a section I will do it in Veotag.
I’m in my 50s and I hate advertising which is poor (overly arty, incomprehensible, trying to change my ‘feelings’, etc). I dont mind sensible short ads which clearly show features. Just get rid of the overhype ad execs!
This video is a great document.
I work in mobile/Internet in Asia and run the Mobile Monday Beijing event (www.mobilemonday.cn). I am now thinking about doing a localized version of your questions to a panel of Chinese youngsters in a coming session.
Especially, I think there is way more similarities between US and Chinese youngsters than one could figure through mainstream media reporting (we work with Chinese mobile and Internet startups – communities, UGC, mobile services, etc – follow in China a blended path combining US, Europe, Japan and Korea and of course local innovations and a local taste).
I also have one request: could you post the video file somewhere to be downloaded? Unfortunately Google Video is one of the few sites not accessible from Beijing (I watched the veotag version but it is not downloadable).
Thanks again for this great piece!
Benjamin Joffe, CEO
[+8*] Plus Eight Star Ltd
Mobile & Internet Business Consulting
China, Japan & South Korea
Let me get this straight:
A panel of 6 young adults aged 15-24 from the epi-center of hi-tech innovation; living in one of the wealthiest areas of the country; who happen to be 1 or 2 degrees away from the VCs on the panel (enough to get invited!) – and you want to extrapolate their habits to the typical young adult in America?
+ 15-24 is an age range where their tastes, behaviors, income can change radically every 6 months – often including 4 years of college where a good part of their time will be dictated by the demands of studying and writing papers. And just what does a 15 year old have in common with a 24 year old? Or 20 year old? You will find that the average 20 year old and average 24 year old have little in common as to tastes, habits and lifestyle.
+ 1-2 hours per week on TV, relying on Tivo? Tivo has less than 5 million of the 100 million households out there. So at best the Tivo is part of the habits of 5% of teens. Yes, I don’t doubt that in wealthy Palo Alto these kids have Tivos, unlimited cellphone time, their own satellite dishes, hdtv, handheld sirius radios with bluetooth headsets … but representative of today’s young adults?
+ 1-2 hours per week of TV for this age range? The real numbers simply don’t match. There’s a huge difference between what people say and what they do. (who really admits to watching as much TV as they do?). TV Shows draw in millions of young adults, from American Idol to Grey’s Anatomy, for several hours per week at least, and this does not include comedy central or MTV shows. Sure – on a public panel, most younger folks will deny watching TV with any frequency. Did you also ask them the frequency of which they take drugs or have sex? Do you think you’d get an truthful answer?
+ There are few people on the planet who will admit that they like advertising mixed in with their media, much less that they are influenced by it. (funny how everyone complains about the delcline of the quality of TV and movies – yet Jackass-2 is the #1 movie this week). There’s a big difference between what people say and what they do. 6 kids on a panel saying they don’t like ads doesn’t mean anything (except that is surprises me that people think this is news).
+ “Next generation insights?” Yawn. Yawn. Yaaaaawn. Ever since PCs came out in the 80’s we’ve been subjected to the hackeneyed, overdone, “news” that the younger generation is tech-savvy, tech comfortable, and behaves differently. What’s the next “insight”? That this new fangled thing called “The Internet” might be pretty big one day?
Take a poll … the majority of people will tell you they hate advertising and low brow entertainment, yet they can tell you who won American Idol, and weave into conversations: “can you hear me now?”, or “it so easy, even a caveman can do it”
The biggest reason that some marketers are missing the mark with younger people is because “insights” like this, are actually startling and big news for them.
Let me get this straight:
Six teenagers volunteer to serve on a panel. I volunteer to moderate it. The Churchill Clubs pays the sound and video guys to record it. They give it to me for free. My friend volunteers to transform the DVD into MP4 for free. The guys at Veotag volunteer to tag it for free.
You read about it in my free blog off a free Veotag server. It provides some insights into teenagers–albeit not a statistically valid, objective, scientific sample to your standards. You didn’t have to pay to see it; you didn’t have to get out of your chair; you didn’t have to endure any advertising.
And you’re complaining that it’s not good. Did I get this right?
Is Advertising Dead?
Guy Kawasaki, a man I respect immensely, asked Is Advertising Dead? in his blog. I wrote a few comments in reply and I would like to share my latest reply in Guys blog with you here.
Hoe adverteer je naar de Next Generation
Guy Kawasaki heeft een panel van 6 jonge volwassenen samengebracht en stelt ze allerlei vragen om te zien wat deze generatie bezighoud. De titel van zijn artikel op zijn weblog Is Advertising Dead? geeft al aan een hint wat Guys conclusie is.
Thanks for this great video.
The panel’s responses became even more interesting as I informally correlated them with some of the things that Podshow’s CEO Ron Bloom said recently in an interview with Shel Holtz for the “For Immediate Release” Podcast.
In that fascinating interview Bloom divided email into three tiers. Here’s what he said (more or less), and how it correlates to what your panelists said.
1) The “Bottom Third” of email: Quick messages and conversation fragments.
According to Bloom, this is moving over to instant messaging. . . and according to your panel, it is moving over to text messaging on cell phones. In fact, it HAS moved over. . . that ship has sailed.
2) The “Middle Third” of email: Letter-like emails.
I was amazed to hear that many of your panelists only dealt with maybe 5 or 10 emails a day! I’m not saying that email is dead, but that’s a much smaller number than (I think) any of us dealt with 2 years ago (Or I, who doesn’t text message much, deals with).
As a marketer, this decreased emphasis on email makes me think that long emails — like newsletters — better be transitioned to blogs, audio and/or video, or they are going to become increasingly unread.
3) The “Top Third” of email: Email containing large attachments of Word files, speadsheets, video, audio, etc.
Bloom claims that this level — fraught with the problems of non-deliverability of large attachments, spam filters, and a climate of fear about opening attachments at all — is transitioning over to RSS-like FEEDS. . .trusted and open channels between people.
In the light of this, I was interested (and dismayed) to hear that only ONE of your panelists knew what feeds are. We all would like to transition into trusted and open feeds with our readers. . . but it appears that is NOT happening with young people the way we’d all like!
That tells me that if I am going to create a feed, I need to give crystal-clear and compelling instructions for using it, or it won’t get used.
To reply to your comment on last post, Guy:
If the point of the original article was “look how cool it is that I can see a free video of the panel” – then I would agree with your assessment that my post is ironic and ungrateful.
But the headline of the blog posting is: “Is Advertising Dead?” and goes on to extrapolate the comments of these 6 kids as rules for “a whole new world” …
A similar reaction and response would be if these same 6 kids said they watched 10 video clips online per day and then to extrapolate the demise of television.
Incidentally, I was not complaining … but if facts and conclusions posted in new media cannot be discussed, challenged or disputed – then it is no longer new media: It’s really the one-way ‘old media’, that is quickly being made irrelevant. Right?
Thanks for the intro to Veotag. I would never watch a video that long on the computer but I did have the time to click on a few tags and get the idea of the session.
I guess one of the things that strike me most with really excellent people in business is how modest and humble they are. Guy Kawasaki is one such example and I was impressed with his recent facilitation of a panel
Guy, there are featured groups on Facebook.
“Apple Students” has 559,271 members, “Microsoft Student Group” – 13,206 members.
Microsoft Student Group
Technology, kids, and teaching
Shouldn’t we know how kids are using technology if we want to reach them? If we can understand how they interact with and learn from technology, couldn’t we design better ways to teach them? We’re not training kids to work
Bad ads are dead. Just like bad jokes, car brands, restrictive business models (iTunes comes to mind…) and other poor performers.
Good ads are thriving, the few that survive the focus group mania and CEO kid’s review filter.
Please, stop calling for the death of a catagory and start demanding thoughtful, interesting and compelling interchanges… oh, and you can call them ads if you want.
Stirbt die Werbung?
Diese Frage stellt sich Guy Kawasaki auf seinem Blog Signal without noise nach einer Diskussionsrunde mit sechs Jugendlichen aus dem Silicon Valley.
Das Medienverhalten dieser Jugendlichen zwischen 15 und 24 Jahren regt zum Nachdenken an:
Das Ende der Werbung für (immer noch) Ungläubige
6 Studenten im Alter von 15-24 Jahren beantworten Guy Kawasakis Frage:
Welche Technologien verwendet Ihr? Welche Medien nutzt Ihr? Denn wir Alten haben keinen blassen Schimmer davon, gesteht Guy.
Und hin und wieder verrät sein überr…
Product placement is indeed key. Our long term strategy certainly centers on finding creative ways to do just that.
This video points out the serious disconnect between the establishment and the generations that grew up with wide spread information technology. There are some very important insights. The moderator, Guy Kawasaki, asked one question several times and…
Thanks for the great post. Regarding your question about the tagged vs. untagged video. I prefer the google video version. Why? Because I can download it, vs. having to play the video online (and my internet is not working so good right now). The ability to use the video in other contexts, even do remixes, is key here. The tagging is nice, but it is like tv, I only get to play it, not edit/remix/download.
Keep up the excellent work!
Helio? I was walking down the street a few months ago and I saw a whole display of ‘Helios’ in a store window (Henri Bendel). I went inside to check them out. The Helio’s screen had a rich display of colors and nice graphics, but the phone itself felt chintzy- too much plastic. It didn’t give me that Cupertino built quality feel. It gave off a North Korea or a ‘chinese knockoff’ feel…So I decided to keep using my Treo 650, until I see a real improvement in these ‘funkin things’..!
Excellent article which started me thinking. I have written a follow up of this on my site http://www.valourgroup.com/genx.htm
Discussion forum and community about wireless, wifi, bluetooth Voip , and related technologies http://www.WifiOO.com/
Career Day – Year Three
This mornings big event was me giving six back-to-back 20 minute presentations at Gilford (NH) Middle Schools Career Day. This was a combined event with all Gilford and all Gilmanton seventh graders. In my third year of doing this, I …
Great post! Just saw your video online today and Im lovin it!
You’re right, having something in your pocket that no one can afford but is attrative to everyone else is cool – if your the one who has it in your pocket. But I have found a place on the web that sells the Helio phones for less than Helio iteself, and allows all people to have that cool factor inexpensively. The place is http://www.hellohelio.net and they give away some of the phones for free, as well as have drastically reduced prices on all the others phones.