Josh Peck

Guy Kawasaki:
I'm Guy Kawasaki, and this is Remarkable People. In case you haven't figured this out, I'm on a mission to make you remarkable.
Today's guest is actor, writer, comedian, podcaster, YouTuber, social media influencer, son, husband, and father, Josh Peck.
Josh has held lead roles in iconic television shows, including Drake & Josh on Nickelodeon, the Disney+ series, Turner & Hooch, and How I Met Your Father on Hulu.
He has over twelve million followers on Instagram, 7.5 million followers on TikTok, and 2.6 million followers on Twitter.
Josh is the author of a new book, Happy People Are Annoying. In it, he shows humor and deep vulnerability, and tells his personal story, which was not all sunshine and rainbows, but that's part of what makes him remarkable.
I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is Remarkable People. And now, here is the remarkable Josh Peck.
Oh, yeah. Special bonus. And the remarkable Barbara Peck.
I've had about 125 guests, and I always tell my kids, "Oh, I'm having Jane Goodall, or Steve Wozniak," whatever. And when I said, "I'm having Josh Peck," they said, "What? You're getting Josh Peck?!" You have created the most excitement of anybody I have had on my podcast with my two teenage kids.
Josh Peck:
You're telling me they weren't hyped to hear Marc Benioff?
Guy Kawasaki:
Just between you and me, they didn't know who he was.
Josh Peck:
They sound like they're exactly where they should be, but I appreciate that. I'm so glad.
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah. I also have to admit that until I read your book, I didn't know there was such a thing as Spanx for men.
Josh Peck:
I got to say I was an early male Spanx adopter. I could have been the male Sara Blakely had I been a bit more industrious, but I missed my opportunity, I guess.
Guy Kawasaki:
That's quite all right. I'm fairly familiar with what books my kids have to read in high school, and a lot of it is, let's just say, set in Elizabethan England. And I would say that your book really should be required reading in high school. It is so much more relevant than Shakespeare or any of them, Machiavelli, any of that stuff. Oh, my God.
Josh Peck:
I appreciate that. You think of Josh Peck, you think of me and Billy Shakespeare, for sure. But I-
Guy Kawasaki:
Exactly, in the same breath.
Josh Peck:
It was certainly presumptuous perhaps of me, or very millennial of me to write a reluctant memoir at thirty-five, where hopefully, my life is pretty incomplete, but I wanted to be able to write something from the perspective of someone still in the fight, where being in my late teens and twenties was fresh, so hopefully people like your kids and a little bit older could relate, as opposed to being in my fifties or sixties and probably having some cooler experiences to write about, but maybe not with the same perspective.
Guy Kawasaki:
Josh, let me just say that, if we waited until you are sixty or fifty to write this memoir, then arguably, my kids should listen to me, too.
So, we know that's not going to work, so right there, bada bing bada bang.
Josh Peck:
Good point.
Guy Kawasaki:
This is just I'm fanboying a little, but I was so impressed with the breath of your jokes from all over, from tech, and the story about the cancer, that wasn't a joke, but the cancer cure at the end of the book, and just your little zingers in there that… oh, I hope everybody catch. I have two of my favorites, I got to tell you this.
And we'll really do an interview at some point, Josh. Okay?
Josh Peck:
I like this.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay. But when you said the story about the person and thought that he or she was going to go to Google headquarters versus the geriatric WeWork, man, I thought that was so funny.
Now I'm an author too, Josh.
I understand, sometimes after I have a book out and somebody says, "Oh, yeah. I thought that story was so great in your book," and I'm thinking there, "What the hell story are they talking about because I wrote that book two years ago and I don't know what they're talking about."
So, I hope you're not having one of those moments, but the best line of the book, in my humble opinion, is this, and I'm going to quote this one verbatim, and it goes, "Here's the last thing I'll say… Follow me on Instagram." I had to laugh out loud when I read that. Now, I hope I've proven that I really did read and study your book, so when I ask you this next question, the spirit in which I'm asking it, not because I'm a dumbass, but I know that there's an edge to this answer. I want to prep this.
So, Josh Peck, are you still acting?
Josh Peck:
Oh, my God. That question has brought me down so many times in my life. It's the bane of every actor's existence is, first and foremost, it's "What are you up to?" Because if someone has to ask, it means "Not much."
Guy Kawasaki:
Right.
Josh Peck:
I mean, most of the time, because when you have some… No one's wondering what The Rock is up to. It's energy drinks, introducing the Super Bowl, and whatever $200 billion movie he's got coming out.
I talk about for many years how my ego was so wrapped up in this profession of mine that if anyone would ask me something like that, or even say, "Are you still acting," it would take a herculean amount of effort for me to slowly look at them and say, "Yes, I'm still acting."
And that was one of my great challenges I had to face.
Guy Kawasaki:
Oh, my God. You let it all hang out there.
So I don't think any question will offend you, but I may ask questions that people who have not read your book may think, "God! Guy, you're such an asshole to ask that question."
Josh Peck:
I'll have at it. I love it.
Guy Kawasaki:
I give you the freedom to say, "Guy, let's just not go there," or "Fuck off, Guy," whatever you want to say. Okay?
Guy Kawasaki:
All right.
Josh Peck:
All right.
Guy Kawasaki:
So your book says, sort of eerily predicted, something along the lines that, "By the time you read this, this Disney+ series, Turner & Hooch, could be canceled, and it doesn't matter."
So now it was canceled, and does it still not matter?
Josh Peck:
Wow! That's a really great question. And you're right. I had an opportunity to change that line and to save space because when I first turned in that, my first draft of the book in probably May 2021, we had just finished filming, and it was going to come out in July, and I knew that by the time my last rewrite would be given in, we'd find out whether or not. And I could have saved space. I could have said, "It didn't work out and that's okay," or figured out some fun joke, or some way to take the onus off just to try to cut any level of maybe perceived embarrassment or what have you.
But again, that moment in the book comes after walking through twenty years of discomfort and facing so many different challenges, and inevitably in my thirties, looking at my life holistically from having a wife, and a kid, and some financial security, and most importantly, being person I was proud to be.
And I knew when I booked that job, that it would only slightly increase the level of enjoyment in my life, and it wouldn't decrease it at all if I didn't get it.
And so, to your point, it didn't matter, and no, it still doesn't matter because I'm on How I Met Your Father on Hulu right now.
No, I'm kidding, but… It just is what it is. It's part of the fight. And I hope that what I'm conveying in the book is this idea of "You can still be ambitious. You can still go for your goals and have a good life throughout that process."
Guy Kawasaki:
I'm really curious at this point, and you are an old thirty, and I don't mean that as an insult. I mean, you've been through a lot, and I think you have a great perspective.
So at this point, what do you want to be remembered for?
Josh Peck:
I've already done my will because I have a kid, and so you got to do the responsible thing. My lawyer looked at me like I was nuts. I said, "I'd like to be dropped in some dirt, no casket," he's like, "I don't think this is legal." I said, "Let's try. I would like some dirt thrown on me. And the quicker I can become energy for the animals that live in that dirt so that I can re-pollinate the world with what's left of me. I want no marker. I don't care about being remembered," because here's the truth. I've done some cool stuff. You've done some even more cool stuff, Guy. But we're both not Mozart.
And so, there's a good chance that despite how cool we are, we are going to be forgotten regardless.
Guy Kawasaki:
Yep.
Josh Peck:
Mozart, Obama, and I don't know, Tesla. Who knows?
A couple people, a handful of people per millennia are remembered, and I've made my peace with I'm probably not going to be one of them, and that's okay.
Guy Kawasaki:
That's a healthy attitude. It may in fact lead you to be remembered.
Josh Peck:
I'll take it.
Guy Kawasaki:
Now, we're going to get into the place where people may say, "Guy, you should not have asked that kind of question." So…
Josh Peck:
Good. Let's make it uncomfortable. All right.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay. So, how do you think the arc of your life would've been different if you had a dad growing up?
Josh Peck:
The smallest decision could change the trajectory of our lives completely, right? I love this idea and I use it as a metaphor for change, but that a boat, even one degree off of its initial course, over time, will end up in a completely different place.
So that's a small adjustment. 50 percent of your parental system being involved, well, that's massive.
So it's probably a world I wouldn't recognize. And I talk about, when dealing with…
A big reason why it took me into my twenties to deal with not having a dad and how that really affected my life was because throughout my early adolescence and teenage years, I knew that I was embarking on this wild, different life, being a young actor, moving to California, performing at comedy clubs when I'm ten years old, getting snuck in through the back door so they wouldn't lose their liquor license.
And it was as though my mom and I were like these misfits, and I had someone co-signing this crazy life that I was living, and her and I together were uniquely made to deal with that, and I was pleased to not have another parent who in theory, probably, would've been understandably have some objections about the way we were living.
So, I know that my life was perfectly suited for me, but had I had a father, I think I probably would've had a completely different life.
Guy Kawasaki:
Do you think the weight and drugs would've still happened?
Josh Peck:
Oh! So there's a great term in twelve-step or in sobriety here, and it's one of the… where we're full of great slogans, but it's like, “From Penn State to the State Pen, or From Park Avenue to the Park Bench.”
Addiction comes in all shapes and sizes, and I've certainly met plenty of fellow travelers in my time in sobriety, of people who either never had enough, had too much, or had just enough, and still they couldn't escape addiction.
So I don't know if we've ever actually isolated the gene, but I certainly think that if you have a proclivity for it, no matter how healthy your system is growing up, it certainly helps.
But I don't know if it's totally avoidable.
Guy Kawasaki:
Are we comfortable going down these paths? I'm sensitive to that.
Josh Peck:
Yeah.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay.
Josh Peck:
Guy, I'm here with you.
Guy Kawasaki:
I probably am going to ask you questions that no other podcast is going to ask you. Okay? For better or for worse. I don't see Terry Gross asking you that question.
But if you believe in the afterlife, let's say we do for a second, so if you met your dad in the afterlife, how would that conversation go?
Josh Peck:
Wow. In the afterlife, I'd be like, "Have you met Beethoven? What's it like up here? Is there a buffet?" My hope for heaven is it's just a non-stop higher-end sizzler, to be honest, Guy. And you don't gain any weight. It's just an unlimited sizzler buffet, and dessert is heroin.
Guy Kawasaki:
Oh, my.
Josh Peck:
I think if I saw my father, if I could talk to him, I hope that I would be in a place where I could just get to know him because the reality is, I don't know anything about him. And I know my mom has my mentioned, but as I say in the book, I think parents have, even when you're dealing with something like this, where my father was less than honorable in certain areas, I think my mom, in an effort to save me pain, put sort of a halo of decency around the entire situation.
And I talked in the book how it wasn't until my twenties when I looked up his other family, and saw pictures of him on Facebook with his family and his kids that I saw that, as far as I know, this wasn't a guy who…
Maybe there are other versions of me out there, or maybe this was just a guy who made a mistake and was the father I wanted him to be for me, for them.
And I can't be the arbiter of the ultimate. I think he was a flawed guy who was scared, and also in his sixties, at the time he had me, so it really meant my father was getting social security and chicks pregnant.
Guy Kawasaki:
It was the-
Josh Peck:
He was in the final chapter.
Guy Kawasaki:
Can you take us inside the mindset of a teenager who weighs 300 pounds? What is it like inside that body?
Josh Peck:
What I've come to learn now is that when you are that size, and maybe 300 pounds for a kid who's sixteen and not above six feet, at that weight, no matter what, it's a representative of something going awry it.
But even if you are heavy set, sometimes it can be a representative of someone who loves food and doesn't think twice about their size, doesn't have insecurity about it, is totally at peace and likes to enjoy life in a way, or maybe just doesn't have interest in exercise in the way that I do now. And I think that's fabulous.
I would look at kids, growing up, who would whip their shirt off at the pool and have a belly, or just be a little bit overweight, and it didn't affect them in any way. And I look at them like superheroes. "How are you impervious to all the things that I feel when I take my shirt off?"
For me, being that size was a manifestation of some real insecurity that was going on inside of me, some real discomfort, unhappiness. And I couldn't diagnose that then.
All I knew was that sugar and junk food was my first foray into using something outside of myself to quiet my inner dialogue, that committee that woke up a few minutes before I did every morning, that told me why I wasn't enough, or why things weren't going to work out.
And I don't know where that was installed from because I remember being pretty insecure, from as far back as I can remember, but I'm sure having financial insecurity and not having that traditional family structure support system meant that I needed something outside of me to really feel okay with the world, because I just remember feeling quite powerless, so it was challenging.
And I remember writing this chapter about when I finally decided to lose weight and my advisor on the book, Ryan Holiday, this was the chapter where he was hardest on me because he was like, "Everything in your life changed when you lost weight. It was the pivotal moment of your life. And if you don't get really honest and talk to the sixteen-year-old version of you in a way that would make you cry, then we're not going to understand, for lack of a better word, the weight of what you were going through at that time."
Guy Kawasaki:
How about you take us inside the mindset of an addict?
Josh Peck:
It's the same mind. When I finally lost 120 pounds, and there I was at eighteen years old with a new body, but the same mind.
And so, when I found drugs and alcohol, or mostly just drugs, I was like, "Oh, this is so much more efficacious and so few calories. It's like trading a Prius for a Ferrari. This is just smart business, the resale value alone."
This is as true as I can be is that I was never trying to kill myself. I was trying to kill the part of me that wouldn't let me live, and that governor, that I talked about, that committee that woke up with me every morning.
When I did drugs for the first time, I didn't know what to expect to feel. I did it because of a girl because I wanted her to like me. I wanted to be typical.
I spent my whole life being less than normal. Even in some extraordinary ways, like getting my own TV show and whatnot, I still felt terribly unique in a way that was not favorable for me.
So when I was eighteen and suddenly, I wasn't worried about supporting the family, I wasn't worried about being the lead of some show that employed 200 people. I was being a knucklehead. I was being supremely stupid with a bunch of other eighteen-year-olds, and I looked like them. I was their size.
And this girl I thought liked me, and I was doing something that she was doing. I didn't know how I was going to feel from the drugs. I just hoped that she was watching because I wanted to be like everybody else.
But then, when I took that deep breath and I spent that night being what I thought, the thing that I'd always been searching for, which was a guy with confidence and who is erudite, and great at schmoozing, and just like a rack contours.
Soon as that clicked in, I thought, "Oh, why would I ever want to feel any other way?" And that led me to the next four years of basically burning my life down in the process.
Guy Kawasaki:
Would you say you were running to something as opposed to running from something by taking drugs?
Josh Peck:
Hmm. It's a great question. I guess, yes, it was.
And what was on the other side of drugs, why I feel weirdly lucky that my thing was drugs and alcohol is that they're so efficacious and thus, the consequence, it matches the effectiveness of it.
So, you are driven to your knees quickly and hard in a way that either your health fails or just you ruin relationship after relationship, you become a pariah, or you go to jail. There are so many repercussions for someone who's in full flight in addiction.
There are a lot of people who are able to navigate life with personality defects, things that they do that are negative patterns in their life, but they can balance it. And then they look at themselves in their fifties and go, "Why am I alone? It seems no one wants to be around me. I've accumulated some wealth. What I thought was prestige and I have no one," and it's, well, you never looked at yourself.
And for me, what was on the other side of drugs and alcohol was that I had to look at these negative patterns. I had to look at all the ways that these defense mechanisms I had accrued through my childhood, that I thought were serving me, but in my adulthood, was really these things I thought were assets had turned into defects.
And they were driving me to look for something that would numb those feelings. So I guess, what I would say is, I think I was always going towards that conclusion that I really had to face these demons, but the only way I would've ever faced them is because I had given up all other options and was driven to my knees.
Guy Kawasaki:
Do you have advice for people after they have been successful with a diet, or after they're successful with AA?
Josh Peck:
I think it's just this acceptance, and I'm fascinated when people go, "Oh, you're sober fourteen years. You still go to meetings?" And I want to look at them and say, "Would you say that about working out? Would you say that about anything else in life would you assume that because you did it once, it would maintain you forever?"
And there's not a single thing, like last night's meal won't keep you fed. ‘
I kept a certain level of maintenance and accepted this idea that I have to grow. I have to constantly face discomfort, because as soon as I feel like I've found some finish line, as soon as I started to… because I want to fortify myself. I want to just get as much money, and prestige, and the romance of the food in excess, and just stay away.
But that's not sustainable, and even if that's possible, which I've never achieved that, I don't think there's anything there. I love that Prince quote of "I've been to the mountaintop and there's nothing there."
So I have to be reminded of that.
Guy Kawasaki:
I didn't think you looked so bad as a quarterback in Red Dawn. Let's just go on the record there.
Josh Peck:
My man, thank you. I didn't either. I got to say, with ten years later, I think I looked pretty okay.
Guy Kawasaki:
But I have a question. As an actor, do you ever get a script like that and it says, "Well, North Korea is going to invade Spokane, and bunch of me and my teenage buddies, we're going to resist this invasion."
Do you ever get a script like that, and you say, "Okay, I must be on candid camera. This script is so stupid that someone's videoing my reaction to this," or do you just say, "All right, so when's the audition?" How does that work?
Josh Peck:
Well… And unless we forget, Red Dawn is a reboot-
Guy Kawasaki:
I know.
Josh Peck:
… of a movie that was once quasi-successful, by the way, shout out John Milius, no disrespect, not the best movie either. Let's be real here.
I think when enough time passes, people have such… they just have such an affection for something maybe they liked growing up in the eighties, but I just dealt with that with Turner & Hooch, when the reviews came in for the show and they were like, "This could never touch the original." I'm like, "Guys, it's a sweet movie. It's not the godfather. What are we talking about here?"
But it was totally a ridiculous premise. I think the first one was able to pass because it was slightly meta because of the Cold War, and the original Bad Guys was "Russia invades America," and it was Swayze and Charlie Sheen, and those kind of movies were just crushing it back then.
But yeah, if I was a producer today and that script comes past my desk, I think I might say, "I think we'll pass on this one."
Guy Kawasaki:
I have an idea for you. How about you be Reacher number three? So, Tom Cruise is too short and this other guy is too big and can't act. You're right in the middle. You could be Reacher. No?
Josh Peck:
Listen, I have learned how to… I remember a buddy of mine, because my issue in Red Dawn was, I was trying to be Chris Hemsworth, which is the biggest joke of my life.
I was just doing a bad impression of what I thought an alpha male was, and Chris, besides being incredibly lovely and professional, just happens to be physically gifted.
And a buddy of mine once said, who's a similar look to me, a bit of a character actor, and not the most physically dominating force, and he said, "I can punch a guy in the face in a movie without irony, but I need to shake my hand off after like it hurt, and that's how I can believe it." And I was like, "Same here."
Guy Kawasaki:
And Chris doesn't.
Josh Peck:
No. Chris punches, and he swallows hard, and he goes, "Wait, we're going to move forward."
Guy Kawasaki:
I think you're the Jewish Chris. How's that?
Josh Peck:
My man, I can't wait to tell my rabbi that.
Guy Kawasaki:
Fast forward a few decades here, and what do you think would've happened if Vine wasn't killed? I mean, for you, not for social media.
Josh Peck:
Look, I guess in theory, we have a great case study, because Vine then would've become what TikTok is now.
And it was short-form videos and everything that TikTok has been able to do was things that we, as creators, were begging Vine to do from the beginning.
They lacked this ability that every startup needs, which is the ability in which to pivot quickly, like make quick changes. And that's what's exciting about a new company like that is that they're spry and light, and they can take feedback and incorporate it quickly.
So we begged them for a music option. We begged them to be able to edit within the app.
There were so many things that it just didn't seem possible for them to do. But I would say that, listen, I do believe from the most part, and I've been able to sustain my place on social media and have a great business regardless, but it's a young man's game.
So maybe I would've been able to ride a couple more years on a high, and make some more money, and do some more cool things.
Inevitably, there was always someone nipping at my heels, whose finger was more on the pulse. I think the best thing that could have happened is I would've pivoted and maybe started my own version of a branding company to get the next young roster of creators and maybe having a piece of that. I think I would've had to diversify if I really wanted to get to an insane level.
Guy Kawasaki:
You would be Gary Vaynerchuk and you'd buy the Jets. That would be it.
Josh Peck:
Oh, my gosh. What's funny is my father-in-law was a quarterback for the Jets for ten years.
Guy Kawasaki:
Joe Namath?
Josh Peck:
I told Gary Vaynerchuk that… Yes, I'm the son-in-law of Joe Namath.
No, his name's Ken O'Brien and he was, from 1982 to 1993, was the quarterback for the Jets.
And when I told Gary that, it was like I told him that he was going to be the president of the United States. And I know him, and he's not easily impressed.
Wow. I'm going to be able to pull a favor from Gary at some time in my life and I'm glad.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay. Another serious question, maybe the first one, but… So, tell me about the lessons that you learned from your experience with Sharon Chatten.
Josh Peck:
Oh, absolutely. Sharon Chatten is my acting teacher, and I had spent the last ten years in my career with this terrible haunting feeling like I had some blind spots that I was… The best way I can describe it was I was just inconsistent, and there were parts, and I continued to get roles, but I was either really good, or really bad, or somewhere in the middle, but there was just no consistency.
And I would go to auditions and I would continue to go for my goal, but in a way, the blind spots were giving me this emotional out, so that if I didn't get the job, I could always say, "Well, I didn't actually put a hundred percent into it."
And I think a lot of people live their life like that, where they never truly give over everything they've got to something because the risk of failing, it's too emotionally painful. The idea that if I truly gave every ounce of myself to this and it didn't work out, well, what then?
And especially, because I've been doing this thing since I was ten years old and my family's wellbeing was wrapped up in it, the prospect that I may not be as good as I thought I was, was at times, crippling, but I knew inevitably I had to look at it if I ever wanted to work at the level that I wanted to work at, or maybe even ever work again.
So, I found Sharon through my friend, Vincent D'Onofrio, and I knew I could trust him because I respect him. And I try to ask people whose life I want, I try to ask their advice.
And he said, "There's one person to go see and her name is Sharon Chatten."
And I went into her class, and she proceeded to strip away everything that I was doing in such, not in a brutal way, it just in a way that was very clear and almost clinical, like, "Oh, you obviously don't know the basics. You don't know the fundamentals of what's required for this craft, for real acting."
And it took me months to reconcile this idea that I probably had more credits than anyone in the class and I was doing the worst, but it was also what was required for me to finally feel confident as an actor after I basically pilloried myself in her class for the last five years.
Guy Kawasaki:
But walk me through this. So you go to her class and there's other students.
And everybody says, "Oh, there's Drake & Josh. Well, why does he need acting lessons? He's been with Gandhi, Ben Kingsley in a movie. Why is he in this class?"
Josh Peck:
I don't know what the reaction was, but I know that acting is weird. I believe it's this disease of something romantic came out of this idea of self-taught in the sixties.
You'd see these badass musicians and they'd say, "Well, where did you learn how to do this?" Like, "Oh, I'm self-taught," or Steve Jobs and Wozniak, "We made the first computer in a garage." It's just cooler than "I went to Juilliard," or "I put in twenty years at IBM and then I got a good idea."
It's just not necessarily as sexy. So, when I went in there, I think basically I, A, needed to humble myself, which to me, has always been the first step, which is this idea of, if I feel like I need to project the air of a great actor, it means I'm completely wrapped up in what you think of me, and all these expectations that isn't the art, and it's not the work.
So, if I walk into that class and I go, "I'm an actor amongst actors. I'm trying my best. I'm going to fail and be embarrassed in certain ways, but if I'm doing it correctly, it won't leave me feeling hopeless. It will leave me feeling closer to where I'm trying to get.”
And there's not a single great, but you heard Kobe. It was the urban legend of Kobe, but I'm pretty sure it's true that win or lose, he would hit X amount of free throws by himself in the gym after every game.
I talked to, I'm sure, Tim Grover, who was Michael Jordan's trainer, and he said, "Win or lose, after each game, I'd look at Mike and say 6:00, 7:00 or 8:00, what time are we hitting the gym?"
So, for a guy like me, that's what's required. I have class tomorrow. And I had the best year of work that I'd ever had, last year, as an actor, but I knew if I wanted for me to not feel like a phony or an imposter, I need to humble myself to the process regularly.
Guy Kawasaki:
I interviewed once for this podcast, a guy who wrote the book, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck, and he said, "One of the secrets to life is that when you found your calling when you find a shit sandwich that you love to do." That's how I feel about podcasting. It's a shit sandwich that I love to do. Maybe acting is your shit sandwich.
Do you think she singled you out or did she treat everybody like that?
Josh Peck:
Oh, she treats everyone like that. And now that I've been in class for many years, I see she… I don't want to make it sound more extreme than it is, but it is slightly like being a new recruit in the military, which is… The students that get her, now that I've been in class for a long time, we have this shorthand.
She knows what I'm capable of, she knows what I'm able to hear, and she knows that I want to get better, I have this desire.
But when you're new, she's feeling you out. And we've created so many protective casings for ourselves, especially as actors.
I remember hearing this story of a great teacher I once went to. Her name was Susan Batson, and she was coaching Tom Cruise for the movie Magnolia. And her biggest note to Tom was, "You cannot smile," because she felt like it was this protective thing, this charming… I mean, Tom Cruise has a million-dollar smile.
And I think she wanted to make sure that he wasn't using it as a bit of a defense.
And so, I think Sharon is cognizant of that in actors early on that you have to get stripped down slightly to be able to really hear what she's saying.
Guy Kawasaki:
I sometimes do what I call a lightning round and I ask rather insipid A or B questions, Mac, PC, Android, iOS, or whatever.
But I'm not going to do that with you. And I'm going to ask kind of a lightning advice round for various people, based on your experiences, I think could be the most valuable contribution of this episode.
You've been through a lot, and yet you're relatable to young people, so that's why I'm asking these questions, because if I were to ask Ben Kingsley this question, half the people wouldn't know who Ben Kingsley is.
So, I'm going to ask you advice for various populations.
So advice question number one: Kids without dads.
Josh Peck:
I would say, one of the greatest helps for me was my mom, at eight years old, took me to the Jewish Big Brothers foundation, and I got a big brother named Dan, who was the best man at my wedding. He's been in my life over twenty-eight years.
And I was able to pick up apostles throughout my life, men who had what I wanted and freely shared their experience with me, and it came in the form of my big brother.
And now, for the last ten years, I've had it in my father-in-law.
So, I think it was a willingness instead of being frustrated with the world that you didn't get the perfect version of what other people have received. Instead, you collect your own heroes.
Guy Kawasaki:
And these, you call "apostles?"
Josh Peck:
Yeah, I would say so. An apostle is someone who tells you something that you're not ready to hear yet. And if your reaction to… I would say, if you're wondering who your last apostle was, just try to remember someone who told you something and the first four things you thought were, "Fuck them. I'm the worst. They are probably right, but it's too late. Ah, fine. I'll do it."
And when someone says that to me and I go through those four things in quick order, I know they've said something important. And I couldn't have come to that on my own, which is why they're an apostle.
Guy Kawasaki:
How do you separate an apostle from an asshole?
Josh Peck:
Oh, I guess if it's just you don't have two, three and four, you just have F them.
Guy Kawasaki:
Next population: Single moms raising kids.
Josh Peck:
I would say that probably my mom is better suited to give advice, but I would say, as the child of a single parent, we are your biggest fans. We are your co-pilots.
My mom and I had talk about it. We were like a startup.
My other friends in traditional family systems, they were like the lower employees, and their parents were upper management. But my mom and I were kind of this scrappy startup that had to figure out ways to get through life and quickly pivot.
I'm my mom's biggest fan, and so I would say that the way in which my mom got my big brother, you have to… you are superheroes, and yet there is only so much you can do as playing the role of both parents. And for the things that you can't actually do, there's nothing weak about outsourcing it to other people who can possibly be helpful.
Guy Kawasaki:
People who are overweight.
Josh Peck:
People will ask me advice on how to lose weight and I want to give them some hack or secret, because I know how badly I wanted it at that time. And what I would say is this, if you are feeling sick and tired, if you're at a loss, if you're at a bottom, and you just can't believe that you're in this position yet again, where you're feeling slightly hopeless, and my first answer would be, "I'm so sorry you're going through that because I know how painful that can be."
And my next answer would be, "That's a really good place to make a change. Congratulations! It's a great place to start."
Because for me, I never learned anything on a good day. Pain has been the great motivator of my life, and it's only when I've been brought down to my knees that I've been willing to either try it someone else's way or finally take the steps I knew was necessary.
When I walked into that acting class after ten years of doing bad work, I said, "I felt like I had completed an errand I had put off for ten years."
Guy Kawasaki:
Wow. Yeah.
Josh Peck:
It was like, I removed a little pebble in my shoe that I just walked around with and grit and bared it.
Guy Kawasaki:
Maybe I should have glommed this in with the last question, but people who are addicted to drugs or alcohol.
Josh Peck:
Again, it's a similar approach about trying it someone else's way and getting sick and tired. And if you're at that place, it's a great place to start. And I would say that there's not one way. I found it through twelve-step, people find it other ways.
The sad reality is that most people won't get sober.
But if you are having an existential moment, if you've had some crisis, a DUI, or you've lost a job, or something bad has happened as the result of your drinking and abusing, it's a real gift.
If you are in a place where you feel like you might even want to try something different or try to get better, know that there are many people who never make it to that point and they either die or they just live long, crappy lives.
So, what you do with that information can really make all the difference.
Guy Kawasaki:
Last population: Parents of teenage kids.
Josh Peck:
Oh, man. I don't know.
I have a three-year-old and I'm a big fan of his, and it seems if I take him to the trampoline park, I can do no wrong.
But I would say this to my relationship with all people, which is "Attraction rather than promotion. Model the thing you want to be."
Especially when it comes to your kids, it's great to say the right things, but if you do the right things over and over, I think that's incredibly powerful, especially when you have a young person who's watching your every move.
And also, unfortunately, giving people the dignity of their own experience. And that kills me.
And I worry about, "What am I going to tell my kid about drugs and alcohol one day, knowing that his dad has been in recovery for X amount of time," but all I can do is give him the best knowledge I have and say, "I know that I can't watch you every second. I know that if you're dead set on doing something dumb, you're going to do it. But I just want you to know all the things that I faced and my perspective on things," and I hope that I can protect him from unnecessary pain, as much as possible.
Guy Kawasaki:
It's possible that someday, your son is going to be in a class, and the assigned reading is your book.
And everybody in class can say, "That's his father who wrote that book." I think that'll be a very proud moment because it means your book has lasted for what, another fifteen years or so, right?
Josh Peck:
It'd be perennial, babe. He'll be at community college if they're reading my book. This ain't going to be Harvard, but I'll take it.
Guy Kawasaki:
Oh, I disagree. I completely disagree. Don't tell yourself short. No, no, no, no.
Josh Peck:
No, thank you so much.
Guy Kawasaki:
This is a very powerful book because it's so… the bullshit fact… You have a negative bullshit factor in this book.
I mean, seriously, there's a negative amount of bullshit. There's not zero, it's negative.
Josh Peck:
All right.
Guy Kawasaki:
I have to tell a little story to build it up, to increase the probability of you saying yes.
Josh Peck:
Okay.
Guy Kawasaki:
I interviewed Sal Khan of Khan Academy. And he tells the story of the genesis of Khan Academy is that his niece was having trouble with algebra. And so, he started Khan Academy to help her learn algebra.
So, me being the clever NPR wannabe that I am, I heard that story, and I said, "Wow, I bet nobody has ever interviewed her to get her side of the story. Was that true? Did uncle say, 'I really do that for her or is that total just corporate bullshit for him to raise money?"
So, I interviewed her and, well, it was a great interview.
So, this leads me to my question, which is, do you think I could call your mom up? You think she'd agree to that, or you'd agree to that?
Josh Peck:
My mother?
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah.
Josh Peck:
She'd love it.
Listen, my mom is… she's an unrealized performer. I'm pretty sure she could walk on Broadway tomorrow.
So yeah, if you wanted to ask her a couple questions, I might be over her shoulder giving her the eye. No, I'm kidding.
Guy Kawasaki:
Of course, I followed through, but I didn't call her at the right time. Lucky for us, actually, I called her the next day and she didn't answer her phone. So I got her voicemail. Listen to this.
Barbara Peck:
(singing) Leave me a message.
Guy Kawasaki:
Didn't you just love that? So finally, we did connect, and this is our telephone conversation.
Barbara Peck:
How are you?
Guy Kawasaki:
Sorry about Friday. I just-
Barbara Peck:
Hey, listen. It happens.
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah. But I got to tell you, the side benefit of that is I got to listen to your voice message, which is just remarkable.
Barbara Peck:
Ah, thank you. I change it every few days. I got to give people a little thrill.
Guy Kawasaki:
I hope a lot of people call you and you miss their call.
Barbara Peck:
I hope so. You never know.
Guy Kawasaki:
As you probably know, I interviewed Josh and it was a remarkably fun, and interesting, and deep interview. And I thought that speaking to mom would add another dimension to it.
Barbara Peck:
Here I am.
Guy Kawasaki:
Yep. So why don't we just start off with, tell us the story of his weight and his drugs, and what was going on from your perspective?
Barbara Peck:
He didn't start that till much later with the drugs. I mean, he was much older and quite honestly, I didn't know the depths of it.
So, it was all very surprising to me. But after a while, of course I knew. And when you love your kid, you want the best for them, so I definitely tried to intervene whenever I could.
And as far as the weight goes, I have a weight problem myself.
In my seventies, I'm still not able to lick, but I'm in a program and that helps a lot.
But food is a passion of mine, and I guess, being a Jewish mother, it was of his.
So, he had a weight problem and I loved him always, and I would always cheer him on, and I'd say, "Josh, when you're ready, you'll lose the weight," but I never bugged him about it because as a teenager and as a kid, my parents did bug me, and it was painful. I felt very rejected.
Guy Kawasaki:
Would you offer some advice to single moms or really moms in general, if they have children with issues like this?
Barbara Peck:
Talk about it. Definitely get help. There's a lot of programs.
All the anonymous programs are wonderful. Just stay close to your children.
And I didn't realize a lot of things, even though we were so close, certain things he was doing, because eating compulsively, there's a lot of shame involved. You want to hide it. You think you're a bad person.
But quite honestly, it's an illness. And it's not like you're a bad person and you need willpower. You really need support in any of those weight programs to keep it off, because so many people relapse.
But my son really worked hard at it, and his book, to me, is such a story of victory. He turned his whole life around.
Guy Kawasaki:
When people write their memoir, there's this temptation to whitewash it and, "Look how glorious I am and how I overcame all these things," but he lets it hang out in that book.
Barbara Peck:
Oh, yeah.
Guy Kawasaki:
It couldn't be more truthful than that book.
Barbara Peck:
Absolutely. As a mom, and your son is writing something like that…
Of course, I felt sad at times because you never want your kids to go through anything, but as far as not having a dad involved, I mean, it hurts.
But again, every time I read something that I felt badly about, for him, I look at him today and I say, "Oh, my God. I don't know that I could ever have done what he's done, and keep his professional career intact and his reputation in the business world is flawless.”
And that makes me most proud of his integrity.
Guy Kawasaki:
And he made you a grandmother, right?
Barbara Peck:
Oh, that is the greatest gift. We had brunch yesterday, and we went to our favorite deli in California, and I'm sitting there with the little guy and I said, "Max, what else can I buy you? What other toys?" He said, "Grandma, everything."
So, Josh said to him, "Honey, when you do that and it's not good behavior, you really have to say you're sorry." And Maxy, at three years old, looks at him and says, "Dad, but I don't feel sorry."
Is that cute or what?
Guy Kawasaki:
Just so I know, what deli is this so I know what deli to go to?
Barbara Peck:
Factor's on Pico. That's one of our favorite delis. Matter of fact, on the children's menu, they named a dish after Max.
Guy Kawasaki:
Oh, that's great.
Barbara Peck:
Yeah.
Guy Kawasaki:
But not after Josh?
Barbara Peck:
Well, it's a kid's menu, and Josh, wherever we go, they're always yelling his name and it's crazy.
It seems like every kid knows who he is because Drake & Josh and they just did something, Turner & Hooch for Disney+, and then he did this other one, I love… what is it? I love my father, or something, or finding my father, with Hilary Duff.
And now, he's leaving tomorrow for another movie that he's doing, and he's speaking at the Y about his book in a few weeks, which is in New York. Very prestigious.
Guy Kawasaki:
So, all of things considered, life is good.
Barbara Peck:
Oh, goodness. I'm so grateful and so blessed. I have a great daughter-in-law, incredible family, and I thank God every day, I got to be honest, Guy.
Guy Kawasaki:
So, there you have it. Josh and Barbara Peck, a remarkable story about resilience, about change, about dealing with problems from child actor, overweight, through drugs, changing all of that, becoming a father.
What a remarkable story! Josh Peck, formerly of Drake & Josh.
Don't forget, Josh has a new book called Happy People Are Annoying.
If you have teenage kids, you should buy them a copy. I think it'd be very useful for them to read about the trials and tribulations of someone they probably consider very cool.
I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is Remarkable People.
Guy Kawasaki:
My thanks to Peg Fitzpatrick, Shannon Hernandez, and Jeff Sieh, also to the rest of the team, Madisun drop-in queen Nuismer, Alexis Nishimura, and Luis Magaña.
Until next time, be safe, be happy, and be healthy.
Mahalo and Aloha.