Suzy Batiz

Guy Kawasaki:
I'm Guy Kawasaki, and this is Remarkable People. This episode's remarkable guest is Suzy Batiz. She is the founder of Poo-Pourri. Perhaps you've heard of it. Its products prevent the smell of poo from escaping the toilet. It is literally a shitty business. That said, it has 44,000 ratings on Amazon and those ratings average four and a half stars.
This business enabled Suzy to join the ranks of Forbes 2019 list of America's richest self-made women. Estimates are that her net worth is approximately $240 million. However, this episode is not all unicorns and pixie dust because Suzy has faced many challenges in her life. This includes molestation during her youth, two bankruptcies of businesses, and three marriages that ended in divorce. So this episode is more about spiritual evolution than simply business success.
This episode of Remarkable People is brought to you by reMarkable, the paper tablet company. Yes, you got that right, Remarkable is sponsored by reMarkable. I have version two in my hot little hands and it's so good. A very impressive upgrade.
Here's how I use it. One, taking notes while I'm interviewing a podcast guest. Two, taking notes while being brief about speaking gigs. Three, drafting the structure of keynote speeches. Four, storing manuals for the gizmos that I buy. Five, roughing out drawings for things like surfboards, surfboard sheds, and office layouts. Six, wrapping my head around complex ideas with diagrams and flow charts. This is a remarkably well thought out product. It doesn't try to be all things to all people, but it takes notes better than anything I've used. Check out the recent reviews of the latest version.
I'm Guy Kawasaki, and this is Remarkable People. And now, here is the remarkably resilient Suzy Batiz.
Suzy Batiz:
I had my second bankruptcy when I was 38 years old. I was devastated, floored, flattened. I had no hope left in me for any sort of success. And I went to a hypnotherapist and he said, "Your problem is you have no meaning in your life." And I said, "What are you talking about? I have children." And I had really turned my back on the concept of God for quite a few years because of the molestation when I was young and I prayed every night and I adapted this like, screw you, I got this thing.
And he said, "You need this book, Man's Search for Meaning." And I read it. And that was my first, oh, I really don't have any meaning in my life. I've really abandoned my spiritual nature and my spiritual calling. And I went and dove deep into a four year of what I call as a sabbatical. I worked very little, I didn't really care about money anymore. I just went inside my own psyche and started restructuring back and reclaiming the spirituality that I had when I was young in a different form than traditional Christianity but knowing that I have access to something higher than myself. And it really is what gave my life back to me.
Guy Kawasaki:
You said it so matter of factly, "Oh yeah, the molestation." Most people don't say, "Oh yeah, molestation," it's like a blister or something. Do you care to explain more about something like that? Because that's a major thing in people's lives.
Suzy Batiz:
This is going to be a pretty radical conversation and it may trigger some people, just so we can put a little warning here. Really the molestation within my own soul and within my own psyche really seeded a belief that I was unworthy. I was molested by my stepfather. And the interesting thing, Guy, is he would come into my room in the middle of the night and I would never wake up. Now I know from psychology, it was defense mechanisms to protect myself.
But I've also been on this spiritual search of trying to wake up, which is really metaphorically interesting. And I went to Byron Katie's workshop. Do you know her? She has a book called Loving What Is, and it's radical responsibility. And I was doing the work, which are questions, is it true? Do you absolutely know it's true? How do you believe when you believe that thought? How do you react? Who would you be without the thought? So you're just questioning your thoughts.
And she asked me about the molestation and she said, "Did you say no?" And I was speechless. And I said, "No." And for some reason, when I acknowledged the fact that I didn't say no, now realize there's conditioning with my parents and the way I was taught not to speak up, so I'm not saying that I didn't have preconditions that actually created this lack of power within myself. But somehow reconciling within myself that I could have said no and reframing what that could have looked like started bringing my power back to myself because then I wasn't a victim anymore.
Did it happen? Yes. Is it unfortunate? Yes. It's horrific. So many people it happens to, but for me, there was powerlessness in being a victim. It's like I had been a victim for so many years and I tried to forgive, I tried all of the things you're supposed to do, but whenever realized that I didn't say no and going into therapy and reframing that scenario and teaching my children, you have the ability to say no, was a reclamation within my soul. And it was something I was able to then become empowered by. I don't believe I have to have that to become empowered, but I also believed that I was giving my power away by being a victim.
Guy Kawasaki:
Well, on the other hand, the fact that you did not say no doesn't make it okay either.
Suzy Batiz:
No, it's not okay. And I do believe that people should be held accountable. So it does not justify any action. It's merely within myself, the way I found a little bit of power to be able to move forward because before that I was stuck. So it's like I was stuck in being a victim. And once I went, "Oh, hold on. I can say no. I can say no to the big businessman."
I sued a $50 billion company, Guy, that had knocked off Poo-Pourri, $50 billion. It was a true David and Goliath moment, but I realized I had the power to do that. So that also was a redo from my childhood. It's like you're trying to take something that's mine. So then I developed this power, what if I said no now, regardless of the size of the corporation. And they ended up settling, I won, to say. But what was so good is I got to replay and redo and take my power back that I didn't have as a child.
Guy Kawasaki:
I don't want to pursue this too much more, but since we are there, what's your advice to someone listening who either was a victim in the past or currently is a victim? What should they do?
Suzy Batiz:
Dr. Daniel Amen, he has a book called Change Your Brain, Change Your Life. The Amen Clinic, they do spec scans on your brain. They actually can see PTSD in the brain. That kind of trauma actually affects the organ, the brain. So go in, they tell me three types of therapy to help with that; EMDR, which is eye movement desensitization response, hypnosis, or sematic therapy, body centered therapy.
So I would dive into that to fix your brain because PTSD is within the physical organ. And then what you will find is you start getting more power within your life. But that's what I would do is go back. And really it's the scariest place you can go as a person, we try to shove those shadow parts down because they're horrific. But once you go in, what I found is that's where your freedom can come up. And that's the hero's journey to go into those dark places.
Guy Kawasaki:
But what if it's happening right now? So teenage girl is just listening to this podcast, what's your advice to her?
Suzy Batiz:
Reach out to an abuse hotline. Reach out to some abuse hotline, tell someone, your grandmother, your aunt, someone that you can trust, and get yourself into a safe space. And then you can start getting support around you. There's lots of free services out there, but realize that you can get out. It's going to take a lot of willpower but you have that willpower, because the amount of will that it takes you to survive and to press all that down, you can just reverse that willpower into your own healing. So realize number one, that you can change the situation. It's going to be tough, but you can do it. But reach out for help immediately. And no one ever told me that.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay. Back to Viktor Frankl. One last question about, I did not expect to go down that path.
Suzy Batiz:
I'm excited. But also, Guy, one of the things is the silence is what gives this behavior its power, because it's so taboo to talk about and people are ashamed and embarrassed and we need to talk about it. I believe if we talked about it more, that people knew they might get found out, there may be less of it. So thank you.
Guy Kawasaki:
Do you agree with Viktor Frankl, and this is a quote, success will follow you precisely because you had forgotten to think of it?
Suzy Batiz:
Oh yes. That is so good. Yes. Because when you're in a state of unworthiness and powerlessness, success isn't even a thought, it's a dream. It's not even attainable in your mind. You're chasing something, but it's like chasing a ghost. And once you start reclaiming your power back, success is a very tangible thought. It's "Oh, if I put all this will and hard work towards something that I can create something." I love it. That's awesome. I forgot about that line.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay. It's funny because in the last week, interviewees for this podcast, three people have told me, Viktor Frankl's book was essential for their success and coming to grips with things. I did not expect it to be about the Holocaust, I thought it was some kind of psychology book.
Suzy Batiz:
And imagine being able to find your power in the midst of the Holocaust.
Guy Kawasaki:
No kidding.
Suzy Batiz:
That's what's radical. You know what, he knew... And think about, Guy, if people were hooked up to meaning and purpose within the entrepreneurial world, how much energy you have and focus and direction as far as a business, instead of just, "Oh, it's a good idea. There's no a dry cleaner on this corner." Instead of... Which a lot of people do and I did prior to 38, I'm like, "There's not an ice cream stand here, ice cream is great."
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay. Is it fair to say that you would not have started Poo-Pourri if men weren't full of shit?
Suzy Batiz:
That's absolutely true.
Guy Kawasaki:
I work for the Macintosh division of Apple, and I have told the story of working for Steve Jobs thousands of times. And I'm sure you have told the story of the Genesis of Poo-Pourri thousands of times, but I'm going to ask you to do it one more time really quickly, and why men being full of shit helped you start a company?
Suzy Batiz:
Well, I was in a brother-in-law's dinner party and it was a small house with one bathroom and there was bathroom odor coming from it, and I'm like, "I just can't do this." It reminded me of my ex-husband now, but that's not why we were divorced. But I would always like, "We have the same diet. I don't understand." And I did ask Dr. Oz. And we'll take a little sidetrack, I asked Dr. Oz that once, Guy, I said, "What is it?" And he said, "Testosterone, it can wreak havoc on the body." I was like, "Okay, so that's the difference," because I knew we were eating the same things, but it did not smell the same.
So my brother-in-law says, "Can bathroom odor be trapped?" And I saw it, Guy, like it was like a zing up my arm, the whole room went into high death. And I worked with essential oils as a hobby and I went, "Oh, I can do that. Oil floats on water." It's like, my brain just starts formulating like, dum, dum, dum, it'll float on water, I can trap it. And I was like, "I can do that."
It took me nine months of harassing my family and friends. Every time they come over, I'd be like, "You've got to go to the bathroom." They'd say, "Why?" I'm like, "Number one or number two, because I really need to test this product." People would stand like three feet back, "Oh, I don't want to talk about this." But it really was not that I was embarrassed of my own bathroom odor, I couldn't stand my husband's at the time nor anyone else's. It's like, it's your shit I don't like. And I knew I could do it. So I followed that Alive idea and it didn't matter. Not one person, Guy, in my life thought it was a good idea. Not one person.
Guy Kawasaki:
Really?
Suzy Batiz:
Oh, no. But I just knew it. I knew it. Everything in my body said, "I can do this." Like I said, it took me nine months. And finally one day my ex-husband because I had him testing every day... And I probably could have developed it sooner, but my testing periods weren't so often.
Guy Kawasaki:
Were you slipping in Metamucil or something?
Suzy Batiz:
Yeah. It's like, "Here, eat this."
Guy Kawasaki:
Have another orange.
Suzy Batiz:
Totally.
Guy Kawasaki:
Eat the peel.
Suzy Batiz:
Totally. And he walks out of the bathroom and he's holding the bottle and he goes, "Oh my God, we're going to be millionaires." And I said, "What?" He goes, "Do you realize what you've done? You have taken the smell out of shit." Those were his exact words. And I was like, "It works." So that was the beginning of bringing in the product. I'd sworn off business after my second bankruptcy, I thought I'm not fit to be a business person. But this idea was so good and it worked so well, I knew I had to bring it to market. It was like my responsibility to humanity, Guy. It's like-
Guy Kawasaki:
So whereas Steve and Woz had a aha moment, you had an oh shit moment. [inaudible 00:15:19].
Suzy Batiz:
That's exactly right. Steve Jobs brought the iPhone and apple, and I brought Poo-Pourri and we're equal, right?
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah. Well, I could make the case that more people shit than use a smartphone, but-
Suzy Batiz:
That's a great point. I like that. And it does work.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay. So you make this chemical discovery and nobody thinks it's going to succeed. And how does it become a success? Did it just take off? People started buying it?
Suzy Batiz:
Well, not so quickly. So what happens is... And I tell entrepreneurs when they come to me with an idea, I'm like, "Is it a good idea or a great idea?" Because people don't tell other people about good ideas, they only tell other people about great ideas. So make it great. I knew that it worked, so I sent it out to 10 or so of my friends, my ex-husband at the time built this really horrible website. I mean, awful. I didn't even have a business card. I had to order 1,000 bottles from my manufacturer, and I thought, "Well, hell, I'll sell them out of the trunk of my car because I've done that before."
So it was a big investment. I started off with $25,000 and I thought, "Wow, I have to buy 1,000 bottles." Okay, well, I have used to hold garage sales to pay rent. So I did that. And then I asked my friends, I said, "Would you mind referring people to buy this product since you love it?" And that happened. And then one of my friends called and says, "I have a gift shop that wants to buy it." So I doubled my prices so I could half them to go wholesale because wholesale is 50% of retail. So it was like, "Oh, I need to double my prices so I can half it."
And I took my first order to this gift shop and this lady was wearing a meek headband at the counter and I took it to this owner of business, Guy. And I had my product in a milk carton, Guy. And this lady doesn't even look at me and the owner says, "Tell her about your product." And I said, "Oh my God, in Poo-Pourri, it's spray before you go." And she didn't even look at me. She has her Louis Vuitton and she just goes, "That's clever." And I go, "Do you want the big one or the little one?" She goes, "I'll take four big ones." And I was like... I made to the car and called my husband, "Oh my God, I sold four of the big ones."
And then the next day I get a call from another gift shop. This is my friend Harold who bought the product, "Can I sell it?" And then the next day another gift shop, and then another one. And it really grew word of mouth. I did about $1 million a year. And Guy, this is important, I started in April of 2007, so I built my company during the recession of 2008, 2009. I'm selling a $10 bathroom freshener compared to a $1 can of the G word that was on the market, the competition. So when people go, "Oh, the economy is bad, you can't build a business. You've got to be competitively priced." Just throw all those beliefs out the window because if something is great, people will pay for it. And my business just started growing word of mouth.
Guy Kawasaki:
I interviewed recently Kara Goldin, and she started the company Hint, the fruit flavored water. She has a similar story of going into Whole Foods, talking to the guy, convincing some random sales clerk about Hint Water. And she was delivering a child and she scheduled a cesarean. So she went in and stocked the shelves in the morning and then delivered her fourth child in the afternoon. And I specialize in interviewing female entrepreneurs who have kicked ass. So, that's my niche.
Suzy Batiz:
So thank you for doing that. It's important.
Guy Kawasaki:
And also Sarah Frey who, believe it or not, has a company called Frey Farms and she sells the most pumpkins in the United States. Something like five or 10 million.
Suzy Batiz:
What?
Guy Kawasaki:
She's the pumpkin queen of the United States. I think what you've proven is that one person's shit is another person's fertilizer.
Suzy Batiz:
That's it.
Guy Kawasaki:
I mean, use [inaudible 00:19:44] right. Is that not true?
Suzy Batiz:
Yeah, yeah.
Guy Kawasaki:
And fertilizer, if you think about it-
Suzy Batiz:
One person shit, another person's gold.
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah. And fertilizer makes plants and flowers bloom.
Suzy Batiz:
That's it. Yes.
Guy Kawasaki:
That's what happened with your company.
Suzy Batiz:
It is. And even the shit in our lives, so the molestations, the abusive marriages, everything I've been through, the suicide attempts, all of that, actually, once you go in and heal, that shit becomes fertile soil to actually be empowered into grow a new life. It's amazing.
Guy Kawasaki:
Now, I've interviewed about 70 people now and nobody has quite had the positive attitude of, "Oh yeah, I was molested. I've divorced three times. I've been abused. I've been bankrupt twice." And all of that is positive. I mean, it's fertilizer now.
Suzy Batiz:
It is. It truly, truly is.
Guy Kawasaki:
No pun intended, but if we could bottle your enthusiasm and positivity, we could sell that too, not just the-
Suzy Batiz:
Yeah. Well, I will tell you harvesting this shit is not fun. That's why most people don't go in and do the work on it. But when you go in and do your deep work and you can harvest from that shit and turn the shit, compost it, it is when the new ideas and the really new experiences come from. I'm a transformation junkie.
Guy Kawasaki:
Speaking of transformation, we're going to switch gears a little bit. So first of all, you live in a restored church, true or false?
Suzy Batiz:
Yeah. True.
Guy Kawasaki:
A restored church?
Suzy Batiz:
Yep. And it was built in 1890. It's 15,000 square feet.
Guy Kawasaki:
You live in a 15,000 square foot restored church?
Suzy Batiz:
Yes.
Guy Kawasaki:
In Texas?
Suzy Batiz:
Yes, Dallas.
Guy Kawasaki:
And you sell something that covers up the smell of shit?
Suzy Batiz:
Yes.
Guy Kawasaki:
Have I got this right? Did I just accurately summarize?
Suzy Batiz:
Yes. It's the church that shit built basically.
Guy Kawasaki:
Can you, not with the camera and thing, just physically walk us through your 15,000 square foot church house? Just explain this to me.
Suzy Batiz:
Yeah. So the front of the church, actually it's three storeys tall, so it's probably 35, 40 feet or more than that tall, 50, 60 feet. Who knows. Big cathedral windows in the front too. It has two entryways. One is blocked off, one is the main one you come into. And then you walk through the entryway into the sanctuary, which is my living room. At the back of the sanctuary was the old altar that now is my kitchen. Don't you want your food made on an altar? So every day my food is prepared on the altar. And behind that, it was my bedroom, I have a sauna room. And those were the old... Actually my bedroom was in the old marriage counseling room, which is funny.
Guy Kawasaki:
It makes perfect sense.
Suzy Batiz:
Has it worked for me? Yeah, yeah. There's something going on with feng shui there. I don't know. Maybe that's why I'm still single. But behind my sanctuary is another level, it's a third level of the church and it is where the choir loft was. In a Methodist Church, it was United Methodist Church, the choir is in the back. So I've turned that into a library. And then the fitting room for the... Yep. So the fitting room was the choir robe room is now my meditation room.
And then I have several bedrooms that were in the old offices down in the basement. There's about 6,000 square feet and it's a half basement. And I have another kitchen down there and another living area. And it's great. So I have like a TV room because I don't watch TV, so maybe six times a year, I'll watch TV. And I have a TV down there and that's where I exercise. And I have a paint room. Because when you have 11 bedrooms, you can just turn them into things, like sauna room, paint room, meditation room. You have a room for every whim.
Guy Kawasaki:
Men come to take you out on a date. Maybe that they have to pull up to a church, it might-
Suzy Batiz:
It might be what's wrong then.
Guy Kawasaki:
... intimidate them though.
Suzy Batiz:
Maybe I should buy a little apartment somewhere and tell them to pick me up. You may have really figured this out for me.
Guy Kawasaki:
I am a solutions oriented kind of person.
Suzy Batiz:
You are. That is the most genius thing I've heard in many years. All this relationship work I've done and you just nailed it.
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah, yeah. You can say that Viktor Frankl and Guy Kawasaki changed the direction. There you go.
Suzy Batiz:
That's it. I'll invite you to the wedding.
Guy Kawasaki:
There you go.
Suzy Batiz:
A fourth wedding, because I seem to like those.
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah. Okay. One more question about your house, why do you have a tree named Dolly Parton and one called Willie Nelson? What is that about?
Suzy Batiz:
Oh, it's so funny. Okay. So I have this, I don't even know, it's going to be a 25 foot tall ficus tree that took 10 men to bring it in. It's an actual massive tree. And one of my friends walks in one day and she's like, "I love it, but she's really top-heavy," because you know ficus have a small trunk and really, and I go, "Let's name it Dolly because she's so heavy." So her name is Dolly. And then one of my-
Guy Kawasaki:
And are you kidding me? Are you kidding?
Suzy Batiz:
No, no.
Guy Kawasaki:
No seriously, that's why you named it Dolly?
Suzy Batiz:
Yeah. And she's so happy. She loves it here. Dolly is happy. And one of my friends that had another ficus said it outgrew their house, it was too tall. So they gave it to me and I thought, "Well, it matches Dolly. Who would be a great partner for Dolly other than Willie Nelson?" So that became Willie.
Guy Kawasaki:
Oh my God.
Suzy Batiz:
I grew up in Arkansas, old country, so they all have... you got Waylon Jennings, we got all kinds of country stars in here.
Guy Kawasaki:
And are you piping 9:00 to 5:00 through your house all days so-
Suzy Batiz:
Of course.
Guy Kawasaki:
... Dolly feels welcome?
Suzy Batiz:
Yes, she's my idol, man.
Guy Kawasaki:
Do you know her?
Suzy Batiz:
I don't, but I am supposed to meet her. That's one of my bucket list item. Yes. Do you know her?
Guy Kawasaki:
No, I wish. If I knew her, I would introduce you to her.
Suzy Batiz:
Yeah, thank you.
Guy Kawasaki:
So that would truly be a meeting of the minds.
Suzy Batiz:
That's amazing.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay. So now I understand your house. We're going to go a little bit more serious again. Now we're going to go in and out of these things. Can you trace for us the evolution of your spirituality?
Suzy Batiz:
Yes. So I grew up very much in Church of Christ. It's a very... You couldn't sing or dance unless you're going to hell. Basically you're going to hell for everything was my belief. So terrified. I would watch the Armageddon movies as a child. I realized later it was some real brainwashing. But I grew up really terrified of life. Anything I'm going to do, I'm going to die and go to hell. So whenever I was molested, like I said, I prayed to God every night. That didn't work. So then I was like, "Screw you, God. I'm done. I'm out of here. I've got this myself."
Did that for 38 years until my second bankruptcy when I woke back up to, hold on, I'm not doing so well alone. There might be a higher power here. And if there is, what would that be? Which took me through many religions, Guy. I've been through Buddhism, Hinduism, I was a Kabbalist for a year. So I kept dipping into-
Guy Kawasaki:
A what?
Suzy Batiz:
Kabbalah. Do you know Madonna wear the red string? You don't know that?
Guy Kawasaki:
No. No.
Suzy Batiz:
it's a esoteric form of Judaism. Yeah, so I just danced around all of these religions really trying to figure out what the truth was. And what's so fun about it as my father who was a bipolar alcoholic, used to give me these very detailed in his mania, examples of how the world works. He taught me about duality. He said, you can't believe in good without evil. Evil can never overtake good because of the dual nature. So he would give me these very pretty advanced spirituality lessons. Here's what Jesus really meant.
And I remember being about 40 and calling him and going, "Hey dad, you know that stuff, you taught me when you were young?" I go, "It's called metaphysics." And he was like, "Really?" So I started sending him books about metaphysics. So it was really a reuniting with my childhood because my dad was teaching me these concepts. But out of his own nature, he'd never heard of metaphysics. He grew up in a small town in Arkansas. It's just what he knew, the way this must be what Jesus is talking about.
So then I started dancing again back with Christianity, but from a different form. I relate more now to the Gnostic gospels. I don't know if you've read the Gnostic gospels, but it's an earlier form of esoteric Christianity before Jesus came into play. I live in a church, I consider myself extremely spiritual, but not the dogma of religion per se. And I love people's belief systems. Whatever you believe in, I think you should believe in it, and I'm a fan. And I've studied religion and been fascinated with it. But I personally don't journey within a particular religious belief system. That's the evolution.
Guy Kawasaki:
And what is your life's mission at this point?
Suzy Batiz:
Really to promote and inspire transformation. I really believe a Buddhist or a Taoist philosophy that we do suffer. Suffering is innate as humans. But what happens with that suffering, that suffering can be a path to enlightenment. So I actually believe that. So my mission is to help alleviate... not alleviate suffering, but to transform that suffering and to actually being connected more connected to your spiritual nature.
Guy Kawasaki:
But you're saying transform suffering, what about preventing suffering?
Suzy Batiz:
I'm not sure that that's going to happen. Let me tell you why. Think about how many people do you know that had a great childhood, that have no issues whatsoever with their mother and father. It was perfect. And they are like very, very, very few. I remember being down in Peru in one of my early Iowaska journeys and there was a guy there. And he seemed really polished. And I said, "What are you doing here?" And he said, "I was loved too much by my mother." I was like, "Wow. Okay."
And that's when I started really realizing that suffering is innate, we will find suffering and there's various levels of suffering. My molestation may not be any different than someone being told they're fat in third grade and that creating that suffering within their being. Suffering is suffering. You can try to save the scale, but the point is that we suffer. And the question is not to avoid suffering, it's what do we do with that suffering? And how do we react with that suffering? Do we stay in it and keep creating the trauma back to ourselves? Or can we actually evolve and grow from that suffering? That's my personal belief.
Guy Kawasaki:
You mentioned a concept of the Alive OS. First of all, one of God's gifts to you is the ability to name stuff because Alive OS is a fantastic name, Poo-Pourri is a fantastic name, The Woo of Poo or The Poo of Woo or whatever that title of your book is a fantastic name. So that's an aside, just a little data point feedback, positivity for you.
Suzy Batiz:
Thank you.
Guy Kawasaki:
What is the Alive OS?
Suzy Batiz:
Well, Alive OS is a personal transformation workshop. It's eight weeks long. And the reason I call it Alive OS is it stands for alive operating system. So we go in and we look at what were we programmed by our subconscious programming. You probably know this, but zero to seven, you don't have a conscious thought until you're seven years old. That is all subconscious programming. We are record, record, record.
So whatever's happening zero, seven is what your hard wire, like in a computer, your mainframe is being programmed as. Think about genetics, think about in the Bible, they talk about the seven generations of curses. Those actually aren't curses as much in my belief system, but what it is is a pattern. And you can look at every third uncle has a problem with alcoholism. You can look back, and these patterns replicate in people.
So what we do is I go in and I have you look at those patterns. You have patterns to conditioning from your parents, from society, from our culture. You have to look a certain way, you have to dress a certain way, you have to be a certain way, sit up, stand tall, pay attention. So what happens is we become programmed and we're stuck in this programming. And then at some point, usually around 40, we start going, "Hold on, who am I? And what does any of this mean?" Hopefully, we hear that call and then we don't spin out. And so it's just like a younger boyfriend, more drinking and drugs. Hopefully, we answer.
Guy Kawasaki:
Portions.
Suzy Batiz:
Yeah, exactly. Which happens, but we usually find out it's not so fulfilling. But hopefully we go inside and go, "What is this?" And we start answering that, what I believe is a really spiritual call. It is the hero's journey as Joseph Campbell talks about to go in and rediscover ourselves.
So that's what we do in Alive OS. We actually go in, we look at programming, we look at how we recreated this personality, this person we've become, and then if we don't like that, what can we do to actually shift it? And it's amazing. I mean, the success rate is crazy. Women... I mean, people... I have a lot of men too. But I mean, I'm talking about the first time I did it, people were quitting their jobs, leaving their husbands, and I'm like, "Whoa, hold on. Are we getting along like extreme?" And now I just let them do it. I'm like, "Okay, they were ready to pop." But basically we hold this container in a community of self actualization to go in and just question, "Who are we? Are we who we want to be? And if not, let's change that."
Guy Kawasaki:
Do you think that this "thinking positively and positive psychology"... Well, what's your opinion of those kinds of things? Some people say it's bullshit, other people say it's completely empowering. You have a entire aspect of religion in there, so how do you view "positive psychology"?
Suzy Batiz:
Yeah. It's not the answer and it can be good medicine. I remember listening to Zig Ziglar and... who were all those guys? Les Brown. Zig Ziglar, Les brown, all these old, they're all guys, but motivational speakers. And what it was for me, Guy, was like having a little... it kept my nose above water. It didn't mean I was out of this shit, but it kept my nose up a little bit. And that's what I think about positive thinking. I don't think it's going to save you and I do think it's going to keep your nose up a little bit so that you can hang on enough to where you can save yourself.
Guy Kawasaki:
But if someone's listening to this, there are so many self-proclaimed gurus and experts and self-help people, etc, etc. What's your advice to help a person determine if one of these people is, no pun intended, full of shit or not? Who do you listen to? How do you figure out who to listen to?
Suzy Batiz:
Yeah. I just recently took down a shaman because of that. I found out that he was not who he was. And I didn't mean to take him down, I just told the story of what I saw and what I discovered and the whole thing just collapsed. So I do believe we're at a point where these gurus and these teachers that are false prophets, if we want to talk about in relation to Christianity, are getting exposed and coming down.
But basically if someone calls himself a teacher or a guru, run. I think that that's an Odalisque philosophy or Buddhism, it says kill the parents, kill the teachers, kill the Buddha. I don't call myself a teacher. I'm actually just sharing information that I've received. The minute you call me a teacher or me a guru, you have lost your own empowerment. That's a wrong direction because I can never be your guru, you are your own guru. And guru say that, you are your own guru. But then you don't actually listen most people and believe it. But I would say if someone calls themselves a guru, run.
Guy Kawasaki:
Do you know what Clubhouse is?
Suzy Batiz:
Yeah.
Guy Kawasaki:
The new audio... Okay. So first of all, when this episode has come out, we should go on together on Clubhouse.
Suzy Batiz:
Let's do it.
Guy Kawasaki:
We would [crosstalk 00:37:54] Clubhouse. Okay.
Suzy Batiz:
This will be good.
Guy Kawasaki:
That's number one. But number two, in my profile, I've been on Clubhouse for a few weeks now, and so many people they're like self-help get rich quick gurus and influencers, etc, etc, that in my profile, I clarify two things. First, I say that I am not the author of Rich Dad Poor Dad, because many people don't know the difference between Kawasaki and Kiyosaki. And then my last line of my profile is, "I am not a guru visionary, etc, etc." I declare that don't put me in that category, I don't want to be in that category.
Suzy Batiz:
No. No, because you're on a pedestal. And guess what happens at people on pedestals, they get knocked down, right?
Guy Kawasaki:
Absolutely. Yes, yes.
Suzy Batiz:
Good for you. So I would say follow Guy because he's telling you that he's not... He's the guy to follow.
Guy Kawasaki:
I'm going to come back now to Poo-Pourri. I have some questions about Poo-Pourri. So why have you not taken any outside investors?
Suzy Batiz:
Basically, because I didn't want to be influenced and I can't trust myself, Guy. I'll tell you why.
Guy Kawasaki:
What?
Suzy Batiz:
I can't trust myself. If I, I can't trust myself, but I can't... If I borrowed money from you, I would be more focused on paying you back than I was the actual health of my company. So that's one reason. One time I thought I was going to sell my company back, before I did my viral video in 2008. And what I notice is the decisions I was making were to sell the company. They weren't decisions for the health of my... And I called my investment banker, and I said, "I can't do this because I can't trust myself." I'm a salesperson, so I have to keep myself really clean because I'll sell you. So I keep very strong integrity boundaries. So, that's the main reason.
The second one is I don't have any debt, period. Being a former bankrupt CE, I made sure that I wanted to always to not be in debt. For me, it's an energy thing, when I'm in debt, there's a burden and a responsibility. What I did was actually what Clayton Christensen says in The Innovator's Dilemma, I didn't know it till I read it years later, but he says, "At the beginning of the innovation, you have to be inpatient for profit and patient for growth." And that's what I did. I had high margins, low cost, my front desk had a freaking... the front panel was falling off and people would think my car was horrible.
But I was putting every penny I had back into the business. I knew I was the best investment that I could have and it wasn't in furniture or my car. It was back into product and inventory. Then he says, "When people start copying you is when that flips and you become impatient for growth and patient for profit." But by the time I did that, I'd already stockpiled so much cash, when it was time for me to put the gas on with our viral video, I didn't need outside funding.
The biggest mistake I see and the people do is they go out and try to raise their first round, second round, I'm in my seed round, I'm in my... all that stuff, and then they owe these millions of dollars to people when you don't even know if the idea is going to work. So you want to talk about a seed, so what I prefer do is to grow something slowly, and you're working out all the kinks. Then if you need money, you have more leverage because you're actually selling something that's actually proven.
So I tell everybody that comes to get investment from me, I show them where to get cash. Most people are sitting on cash they don't even look at. It's called resourcefulness. You don't need the big office, you don't need other years trying to impress people. I would rather invest in the person working in their aunt's basement. Steve Jobs in his garage building computers, that's the people to invest in. And the guys said they have to have a $3 million office building and $20 million to launch. That's not my game. My game is, let's be scrappy and raw, and then once we figure out that we have something, then if you need investment... I'm just lucky enough that I built up enough cash that I haven't needed so far.
Guy Kawasaki:
Another question for you about the business, why haven't you shared equity with employees?
Suzy Batiz:
I do, and they all have phantom stock.
Guy Kawasaki:
I read someplace that you own 97% of it and 3% for your kids.
Suzy Batiz:
I do as far as actual stock, but every employee I have has phantom stock.
Guy Kawasaki:
And how does that work?
Suzy Batiz:
It works, whenever I exit, they will all get paid out. It depends upon how long they've been there, their tenure. Trust me whenever I sell, there's going to be several multi-millionaires, but I still have my second employee, Jeanette. She's amazing. My CFO has been with me eight years. He's 32 years old. My senior VP of creative, she's 33. She's been with me for eight years. And so they definitely have phantom stock.
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay. Well, I'm glad I asked that because-
Suzy Batiz:
And my average salary is insane. They are probably some of the most well-paid people on the planet.
Guy Kawasaki:
Oh yeah?
Suzy Batiz:
Yeah. It's fun.
Guy Kawasaki:
I'm glad I asked that question because when I read that somewhere that you own 97% and your kids own 3%, I said, "Well, that doesn't sound right."
Suzy Batiz:
Is that fair?
Guy Kawasaki:
So two more questions for you. Question number one, a young girl is listening to this and says, "I want to be the next Suzy Batiz," what's your advice to her?
Suzy Batiz:
Don't be Suzy Batiz, be you and be the best version of you that you can be because the world doesn't need another Suzy Batiz, what they need is you. And you're genius, and you're power. So look at what that is and be the fullest most outrageous expressions of who you are that you can be.
Guy Kawasaki:
I understand that at the top level, at the 50,000 foot level, but now take me down to the 2,000 foot level. What does that mean?
Suzy Batiz:
It means that if school turns you on and that's a value, do it. If it doesn't, there are alternatives, but you have to master something equally as much. So you can't offset education with nothing. So for example, my children, my older son went to film school, hated it, dropped out. Now he invests in cryptocurrencies. He ran the first Bitcoin meetups here in Dallas. He's doing really well, but he studies alternative currencies in that market all the time. He's become a master in crypto.
My younger son got an online degree. He has patents on large scale hydroponics units. So while he's not using his business degree, he is at home doing his own engineering. My daughter is applying for her masters in film. She values education. So I have two children that went their own path doing their own things. And what I've told them is, master whatever you're doing, find somebody to apprentice under if you're not going to get the formal education. My daughter actually values her education even though she's actually an artist. She graduated from Rezdy and now is looking at these different top film schools. So it depends upon your values and... but it's very hard to be successful with no education and no mastery.
Guy Kawasaki:
So I don't know how to ask this question. Actually, this interview is full of questions I don't know how to ask them because typically I don't ask them. How was your molestation? But I would love to hear your advice about marriage because you either know the most about marriage or the least.
Suzy Batiz:
Well, I'm not sure I'm the right person to ask about marriage. I always tell my kids this, when they call me for love advice, I'm like, "First of all, let me give you my credentials, okay?" And they'll ask. Realize you're taking this advice from that person, so filter it through. So that's what I would tell you. I love love, Guy. I love being in love. What I didn't realize until actually the past five years is that I was making decisions about love based on old dysfunctional patterns from my childhood. So I've been actually doing a lot of healing within, we can just talk all week, my inner child, the individuation, self-actualization, all those buzzwords.
But it's actually really true is reintegrating in the person that I'm looking for. So as I become stronger within myself, what I've realized is that the only way I'd be interested in a relationship is with an equal partner, not someone that I have to take care of or carry around. And I've done deep, deep work for 17 years as far as my innerself. So it's going to be a rare bird that... And I know that. And I know.
Guy Kawasaki:
You probably wouldn't find this guy on Tinder. I [crosstalk 00:47:36].
Suzy Batiz:
No, no. I'm going to be sitting here with a cat. And I'm and I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that. Because what I'm not willing to do, I settled a lot in my life for a lot of things and that's not something I'm willing to. I'm willing to grow and to learn and I love being in love. I love love. But also... So heal. This is what I tell my children, do your inner work as much as you can before you decide to get married. And then you're going to have a lot firmer footing and you're not going to be working out all that childhood trauma within your relationship. And if you don't, it's still okay too. That's all good.
Guy Kawasaki:
I can just see the comments on this episode coming in now, you are so callous and tasteless and you [inaudible 00:48:24] about marriage and you are asking about molestation and abuse and bad [crosstalk 00:48:29].
Suzy Batiz:
I love it. I want to have these real conversations. You are the first podcast interviewee that has had the courage to go there, so thank you.
Guy Kawasaki:
Really?
Suzy Batiz:
Yes. I want to talk about it.
Guy Kawasaki:
Well, what do most podcasters do? Just ask you how you started Poo-Pourri?
Suzy Batiz:
Yeah. And what do you have for breakfast? What's your self care routine? And you know what, I don't know if my team told you, but last year I had, I'm not answering breakfast questions. I've literally told people on Instagram, "Literally you have my ear and you want to know what I eat for breakfast. You're not going to get anywhere with that." I mean-
Guy Kawasaki:
Well, that was going to be my last question, but okay.
Suzy Batiz:
Next.
Guy Kawasaki:
Well, I just assume you had bread and wine in your church for breakfast, but anyway. Okay. Truly, truly the last question, all right?
Suzy Batiz:
Okay, okay.
Guy Kawasaki:
How, where, when, etc, etc, do you do your best and deepest thinking?
Suzy Batiz:
On the toilet. Just joking.
Guy Kawasaki:
That's a good answer.
Suzy Batiz:
I mean, I had to say that, but it's a good answer.
Guy Kawasaki:
Well, yeah.
Suzy Batiz:
Yeah. Really when I am... I've had personality specialists do all the assessment of me, whatever, and what they've said is that I need to get away. When I get away and I'm in a fresh space or a new environment, I love to travel, they said I shouldn't call it vacation because that's when all my ideas come in. But if I go away for two weeks, I come back on fire, man. So I do my best thinking relaxing which now-
Guy Kawasaki:
Okay. But now in a pandemic, you're not exactly going to Tahiti. So what's happening now?
Suzy Batiz:
Yeah. Well, I'd been to LA a lot and Ohi, so I'll go rent a house and just camp out. I just got back from LA and Ohi for three weeks, so I have been traveling a little bit. I'm a biohacker so I do my IV drips and everything and keep my immune system healthy. And I'll get on a plane and I'll go camp out for three weeks, and I do my testing, and then I come back and I'll quarantine, but I have to get out in a way. But also during massage. If I had a $1 for every time I'm in the middle of massage and I tell a therapist, "Grab my phone," and I'll be leaving voice notes to my creative like, "Oh my God, if we did this."
Guy Kawasaki:
Since you mentioned Ohi, have you been to that outdoor bookstore there?
Suzy Batiz:
Yes.
Guy Kawasaki:
Is that not the most interesting bookstore in the world? I love that bookstore.
Suzy Batiz:
It's incredible. Where they have the books on the outside of the building?
Guy Kawasaki:
Yeah.
Suzy Batiz:
Yeah, it's fabulous. Ohi is magical.
Guy Kawasaki:
It is magical. I hope you've been inspired by Suzy's remarkable resilience. She has gone through molestation, through divorces, and two bankruptcies, and she has emerged as a successful business woman and creator of the Alive Operating System.
I'm Guy Kawasaki, and this is Remarkable People. My thanks to Jeff Sieh and Peg Fitzpatrick who have produced yet another remarkable episode of Remarkable People. Vaccines are on the way, but please remember, wash your hands, wear a mask, don't go into crowded places, and get the vaccine as soon as you can. Mahalo and aloha. This podcast is brought to you by reMarkable, the paper tablet company, focus more and goof off less using a reMarkable tablet. This is Remarkable People.